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Timing chain guide and tensioner 3.2DID

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Pajero James
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 19:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark3 wrote:
Pajero James wrote:
Mark have you ever done a 3.2 top guide and brought one of these to TDC?


One or two  Very Happy  

but either way the new guide deflects the chain downwards slightly more so than the worn guide so going by the laws of physics it will be trying to tighten the chain Very Happy


You're incorrect, the chain does not always be taught between the two camshaft spockets as I said earlier. It's a guide think about it it does not push down on the chain. Ive hundreds and hundreds of guides done and never redid the the tensioner.
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Mark3
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 19:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive never seen that didn't deflect the chain some so you can do it however you want but im not taking a chance for the sake of 5 more minutes of easy work 😃

P.S.  Are you Jimmy Bond?
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Pajero James
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 20:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you seen where the chain gets slack at all in all of the one or two that you have did?

P.s. Not jimmybond lol.
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SteveW-DID
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done a few too and i always reset the tensioner. A new top guide pushes the chain down between the two cam sprockets. If the old guide is warn or missing this will over tension the chain. The tensioner has a degree of free play-it is hydraulically damped, if you rotate a cam shaft with a spanner so all the slack is between the two cam sprockets and can fit the new guide and it doesnt apply pressure to the chain you may be OK, but why risk it. If you are changing the top guide replace the tensioner at the same time and use genuine parts. Thats my opinion and i'm sticking to it! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 19:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for all of your advice.
Without wishing to offend anyone I have decided to reset the tensioner.
Once I have removed it, reset it and replaced it, how will I know if it has adjusted itself ?
Thank you.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 20:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove it before fitting the new guide, when its done press the ratchet pawl in, press the plunger in and then hook it back, insert it into the head making sure the slipper pad it presses on is away enough not to press on the tensioner and unhook the plunger while your inserting it (it shouldn't be but if it is hold it away with a screw driver) then when its in you can turn the engine over by hand to pop it out OR what i like to do is press the tensioner in with my finger or screw driver so i can see/feel it coming out  Very Happy

AND although with a job of this kind its probably complete over kill turn the engine over two full turns of the crank (or 1 turn of a cam) to make sure nothing is clashing, like valves and pistons  Shocked
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markindevon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

So could I fit the tensioner, then remove it to make sure it has released as it should, and then fit it again ?
What is the best way to turn over the engine by hand ?
Apologies for so many questions but I don't want to cock it up.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 21:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

markindevon wrote:
So could I fit the tensioner, then remove it to make sure it has released as it should, and then fit it again ?
What is the best way to turn over the engine by hand ?
Apologies for so many questions but I don't want to cock it up.


As no-one else has replied.....in a word....NO!

If the tensioner is similar to that on the 4M40 (which I am sure it is) the little hook will release as soon as the engine is cranked. Then the oil pressure builds up really quickly and extends the tensioner to the appropriate position.

These are really well-designed, rugged engines. The chain tensioner hook/release just works. If it didn't there'd be hundreds of thousands of damaged engines about. There aren't.

The tensioner isn't designed to be fitted in any other than its hooked-back position. So removing it would defeat the whole object and probably damage the ratchet and pawl mechanism.

The best way to turn the engine over by hand is to put a socket and lever on the crank bolt.  Don't be tempted to use a camshaft bolt!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the advice.
Do I access the crank bolt from above, and is it obvious which one it is ?
Thank you.
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markindevon
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 14:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the rocker cover is still off will I be able to see the refitted tensioner extend when I turn the crank ?
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 14:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you fiddle about releasing the pawl (which I wouldn't) then the tensioner will stay compressed until you start the engine and the oil pressure builds up. Not something to be done with the rocker cover off!

Personally I wouldn't worry about cranking the engine by hand to make sure no valves are fouling. You haven't removed the chain from the sprockets so nothing can have changed.

Unless you've taken the fan off, I doubt if you will access the crank bolt from above.

If it was my engine (which I know it isn't), I'd simply remove the tensioner and reset it. I'd use a new paper gasket when it goes back, but don't use any silicon sealant as it can block the oil hole.  Put the rocker cover back on, having sealed around it with RTV and using a new gasket if necessary. Don't overtighten the cover bolts! Then start it up.
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markindevon
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 16:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shall just reset the tensioner and pop it back in then.  I assume there is only one way to reset it ?
I have ordered two new gaskets for the rocker cover and tensioner.
Thank you for the advice.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 16:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asuming it's identical to the 4M40 engine (the 4M41 is twin cam) here's an extract from the workshop manual.



If you haven't got a 4m41 workshop manual, it would be very useful to you if you can locate one.
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markindevon
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 18:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Simon.
I have a Haynes manual but that doesn't show much.
Found some info on this engine online and it looks pretty similar.
I'll pop it in and start it up.
What could possible go wrong !
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Mark3
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 13:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

markindevon wrote:
Thank you Simon.
I have a Haynes manual but that doesn't show much.
Found some info on this engine online and it looks pretty similar.
I'll pop it in and start it up.
What could possible go wrong !



Haynes manuals are only any good if you need something to stand on, for technical info and advice you be best off asking Mr Blobby  Very Happy
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