Automotive handbooks / manuals

The Mitsubishi Pajero Owners ClubŪ
The Mitsubishi Pajero, Shogun, Montero, Challenger, Raider and EVO 4x4 Owner's Club
 
The POCUK - it's not just a Club, it's a way of life!

 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   Watched TopicsWatched Topics   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your personal messagesLog in to check your personal messages   Log inLog in 
CalendarCalendar   POCUK Club ShopClub Shop  Click here to enter the chat roomChatroom  POCUK Classified Ads serviceClassified Ads
POCUK home pagePOCUK Home  POCUK ForumsPOCUK Forums  Click here to link to the Pajero Owners Club in Poland!POC.pl  Yellow Diamond ClubsYellow Diamond Clubs

More Oil Information


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Mitsubishi Pajero Owners ClubŪ Forum Index -> Oils, lubes and fluids
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
assassin
*******
*******


Age: 58
Zodiac: Capricorn
Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 4083
Location: Wherever I Wander To -- Midlands

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:16    Post subject: More Oil Information Reply with quote

I am currently getting a lot of questions asked about oil and it would appear that some retailers have learned a new word and are using it to convince people to buy different oils at inflated prices, so I thought I would explain it and what it actually means and how it affects Shogun/Pajero owners.

Many oil retailers are now claiming oils won't mix and this is particularly with engine oils and to some point they are incorrect and correct.

Miscible is the wording being used and anything miscible means it can be mixed with something else to form a new compound and an example would be ethylene and glycol which are two liquids which make traditional anti freeze as these components are mixed together to make anti freeze, add deionised water and you have ready mixed coolant.

Most engine oils are miscible which means that they can be mixed with similar oils, a mineral 20/50 from Shell can be mixed with a mineral 20/50 from Texaco; similarly a 10/40 semi synthetic from Fuchs can be mixed with a 10/40 semi synthetic from Valvoline and in many cases semi synthetics can be mixed with most mineral oils due to their construction which is that the additives of a semi synthetic oil are derived from both a mineral base stock and a synthesised stock and mixed together and then added to the mineral base oil.

You cannot in most cases, add a full synthetic 0/60 to a mineral 20/50 or in many cases add a semi synthetic 10/40 to a fully synthetic 10/40 and this is for several reasons, oil is generally based upon viscosity and this is actually misleading to an extent but used as a standard to define the operating temperature range of the oil and this is ambient air temperature or in simpler terms, the air temperatures outside.

In recent years oil technologies have advanced significantly due to several factors and the main ones are to improve lubrication of an engine by reducing its emissions and improving its fuel efficiency and instead of numerous different manufacturers have used their own specific blend of additives to their own branded products and they do not share this technology with other oil manufacturers which means their oils are all unique, so does this stop them being miscible? in most cases no, but you do need to verify that they are miscible from the manufacturers data sheets and technical specifications, so what does this mean for consumers and Shogun owners? in general terms you can mix miscible oils from different oil manufacturers or fill up with a specific oil at your regular oil change and then top up with a different manufacturers oil if you need to top up your engine oil.

Now the scam; many retailers are categorically stating that you cannot mix different engine oils and this is untrue, as long as they are miscible and of the same grade and type they can be mixed, but, as different manufacturers blend oils to their individual specifications you may not get the full benefits of their oil and this is true; they may do a specific blend for extended service intervals, another manufacturer may do a blend for vehicles with variable oil changes, while a third manufacturer may do a blend for vehicles with fixed service intervals and if you mix an oil with a fixed service interval with one with an extended service interval then obviously you are not going to get the benefit of an extended service interval.
When you change your engine oil with your filter you change everything and you drain all the old engine oil out so the rule of thumb is very simple, buy your 10 litres of engine of the same type from the same manufacturer irrespective of who it is as you are replacing all the oil and if your low oil light comes on 200 miles from home and you have no obvious leaks then you can go to the nearest oil retailer and buy a 1 litre top up container and put it into your engine as long as all the oils are miscible.

Gearboxes are the same if they are manual gearboxes as are differentials and even transfer cases, most transmission oils are miscible and in each case you are draining the old oil totally and replenishing with new oil and each component receives new oil and it doesn't matter if your rear axle has Gulf 80/90 to GL5 in it and your front axle has Mobil 80/90 to GL5 in it as they are separate units and the oil is not mixed.

Automatic transmissions are different, our vehicles use ATF to Dia Queen SP II or SP III depending upon the year of manufacture and when SP II was replaced by the newer SP III it was designed from the outset to be backwards compatible so you could replace your older ATF requiring SP II with the newer specification SP III without issues or problems and many vehicle owners with older vehicles requiring SP II found that by replacing it with SP III was a very useful upgrade to their ATF which gave better gear changes  and longer life even under difficult conditions.
Many automatic transmissions give different results when draining and some get as little as 4 litres out and some give as much as 8 + litres when drained using the manufacturer approved pump out method and this is where problems potentially occur, many people use the Millers Millermatic SP III and this is fine, others may have used Fuchs 4400 which is also a good ATF which meets the SP III specification. If you used the Millermatic SP III and find you cannot get it now as it has been replaced my Millermatic SP III WS then stick to the Millers Millermatic SP III WS to replace your ATF, or if you used the Fuchs 4400 the stick to the Fuchs 4400 to replace your ATF, but why if they are both miscible? because they are only miscible with other similar products or partially miscible.  

If you drain out only 4 litres using the approved draining method then replace like for like and if you used Millermatic SP III you can mix Millermatic SP III WS with it without issues, similarly, if you used Fuchs 4400 then replace it with Fuchs 4400 as you cannot drain all the old ATF out and you are mixing the new ATF with the old ATF and diluting it and you retain the benefits of the ATF as Millermatic SP III WS is backwards compatible with the older Millermatic SP III and the newer Fuchs 4400 has been upgraded and is backwards compatible with the older Fuchs 4400. Never mix two different types of ATF as you bet the benefits of neither and you will reduce the working life of the ATF. If you get much less out then others then never worry, drain out what you can and replace it with new ATF, run the vehicle for about a month and go through your replacement procedure again as if you only drain out 4 litres you only replace 4 litres and you have 6 litres left to do the second ATF change.

One thing to be aware of is that some engine oil manufacturers are now stamping their oil manufacturing date on their containers and stating that it has a life of 5 years, this is actually true as even if the oil container is unopened they are using a type of degradable additives package which naturally degrades with time, so be aware of this as some Comma products are date stamped with a 5 years maximum life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Google
Sponsor







PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:16    Post subject: Google Ads keep the POCUK free to join!


Back to top
peteinchad
LifeTime Member
LifeTime Member


Age: 63
Zodiac: Gemini
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 14680
Location: East Midlands, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well worth knowing Assassin - although personally I have always stayed with the same make/type oil or ATF to avoid any problems.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
JPB
**
**


Age: 54
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Joined: 30 Apr 2018
Posts: 91
Location: Northumberland

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice tribological information there, thanks for posting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
assassin
*******
*******


Age: 58
Zodiac: Capricorn
Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 4083
Location: Wherever I Wander To -- Midlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tribological, now there's a nice word I haven't heard for a short while.

I wonder how many people know what it means without looking it up?
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
peteinchad
LifeTime Member
LifeTime Member


Age: 63
Zodiac: Gemini
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 14680
Location: East Midlands, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

assassin wrote:
Tribological, now there's a nice word I haven't heard for a short while.

I wonder how many people know what it means without looking it up?


... ology means "the study of"

So tribology is obviously the study of tribbles - LINK  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
JPB
**
**


Age: 54
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Joined: 30 Apr 2018
Posts: 91
Location: Northumberland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was an actual tribology department at the last college I taught in. Those of us in the adjoining rooms - belonging to the mechanical & production engineering department - would often hear strange, high-pitched sounds coming from the cupboard that served as the tribology office. Maybe they kept a tribble in there? maybe both of that department's staff were some form of dolphin/human hybrid, we never could fathom them out, but the one thing I am able to tell you about tribologists is that their heads were used as the template for those "boffins" portrayed in that Tefal advert as seen on the TV back in the eighties and nineties.
Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
assassin
*******
*******


Age: 58
Zodiac: Capricorn
Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 4083
Location: Wherever I Wander To -- Midlands

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could do with trifology so you could bet a trifle instead, or am I being a trifle optimistic?
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Mitsubishi Pajero Owners ClubŪ Forum Index -> Oils, lubes and fluids All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


All contents © Hobson's Choice IT Solutions Ltd 1997 on
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group