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SOLVED! 4M41 - Injector pump not sending diesel to nozzles


 
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bmoseti
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:22    Post subject: SOLVED! 4M41 - Injector pump not sending diesel to nozzles Reply with quote

SoS: My 2001 pajero 3.2 DiD  (in Kenya) has been dead for almost oneyear with no solution in sight. Here's the story, I did an engine transplant from a known running car. My other engine had started overheating randomly, hence the transplant. Unfortunately, I have been unable to get the new engine running as everything works as it should but the injector pump is not releasing diesel to the injectors. I have tested the pump in another car and it runs well. I have also tested my ecu and immobilizer set on a running car with no trouble. I have replaced both fuel pump speed sensors with brand new ones. I have done continuity tests for the engine wiring harness and everything checks out as it should. I am defeated and all the mechanics, wiring technicians I have brought have not been helpful. Computerized Diagnostics do not show any fault. And when using the blink lights, I only get error 49 and 54, both of which I can clear using a launch diagnostic machine. I cant find anyone with MUT in Kenya. I honestly cant see why the pump should not be responding as I can hear all solenoids clicking on ignition, as they should. I have confirmed that diesel is getting into the pump, but just not exiting. I know there are gurus on this forum who can help and I will truly cherish your guidance on what else to look at. I have not bothered checking the accelerator pedal position sensor because everything was working well with the old engine. Please help!

Last edited by bmoseti on Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:16; edited 4 times in total
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assassin
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the fuel shut off valve working? this is the obvious course of action, check its got power to it and that it is opening correctly.

You have a button filter in the fuel incoming line, this may be blocked and preventing fuel getting to the pump.

Is the stop solonoid actually powered?
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bmoseti
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

@assassin Thanks for the reply... yes the shutoff solenoid is powered and working well. I took out the pump and tested on a different car. Fired right up. I have gotten a replacement ecu and immo. set but still no joy. Wiring lines up well with what is in the manual.
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bmoseti
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

@assassin... anything else you think I can check? I am now fumbling in the dark. Thanks
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is either not getting diesel or the pump is faulty as they are an indirect injection diesel, remove a pipe at the pump and see if the pump squirts some out.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

if the pump ran normally in another vehicle I would wedge a funnel in the diesel supply pipe and fill it or use a 12v fuel pump and supply direct from a can. If it runs you have a fuel pick up issue or fuel pump issue, if it doesnt its fuel pump or wiring
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bmoseti
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 18:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Steve and Assassin, I have tried feeding the pump from a funnel but no joy yet. As indicated, the injector pump works perfectly in another car. I have since purchased a different ecu that had been programmed to remove the immobilizer function, and starts other cars well. However, it fails to respond on mine and gives a code 54. Might you know if the immobilizer ecu around the key ring can prevent an engine ecu with immo-off from responding? My original ecu also only throws fault code 54, hence my purchase of a second ecu. Also, apart from the stop solenoid, might you know what else the immobilizer shuts off... I am currently getting voltage to the stop solenoid, and nan hear some faint buzzing sound around the pump governor when the car is on...but cant for the life of me tell why fuel wont leave the other side to the injectors.
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bmoseti
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:14    Post subject: SUCCESS AT LAST! Reply with quote

After one year of silence, my 4m41 is now roaring. The signal wire from the immobilizer unit to the ECU (A yellow pink wire that slots into pin 52 of the ECU) had broken somewhere underneath the dashboard. In the one year of solution finding, I have made some key discoveries about the 2001-2006 pajeros with 4m41 DiD engines:

1. The immobilization only happens at the immobilizer box beneath the steering wheel. A working key and immobilizer set will work with any random ECU. As such, if you lose your chipped key or the immobilizer box fails for some reason, you do not have to change the ECU
2. ECUs from that generation are super resilient... I accidentally short-circuited the system several times, but the ECU still lived. The most damage I caused was two failed Mossfet transistors, which I was able to source from a scrap ECU and easily refit with a soldering gun.
3. The speed sensors, while they fail occasionally, are some of the most hardy parts of these cars. You can also run the car with just one injector speed sensor- one is there as a backup.
4. The injector pump is not as mysterious as we suspect. The Electronic governor especially operates like some variable resistor, hence nothing much in it to damage. I removed my electronic governor, stripped it entirely and reassembled it using a set of torx keys and a soldering gun. Refitting the electronic governor does not need calibration, it just slots in place.
5. The accelerator pedal position sensor is also a variable resistor that you can easily set with a multimeter.
6. The injector pump can run with all connectors out except the big 12 pin connector.
7. The truck can start and run with the accelerator pedal position sensor disconnected.
8. You dont need a scanner to pull out codes from these cars. Just a wire from pin one of the diagnostic connector to any grounded part of the car. The blink codes work perfectly and will not give a fault that is not present.
9. Removing the battery terminals for about 10 minutes clears all fault codes.
10. In case your blink codes are not working for some reason, a launch obd scanner gives accurate codes and clears everything including stored ABS fault codes.
11. The car can run with all vacuum hoses out, of course it won't be perfect but it will run.
12. You can correct a non-working fuel gauge by fixing dry joints behind the clock.
13. Your car will not run without proper bleeding regardless of how much you try to crank the engine. You will just be damaging your starter.
14. When working around the diesel filter, make sure to use a rag and container underneath it to prevent any fuel from getting to the starter. Starters hate diesel.
15. Removing the injector pump is a 15 minute job, with a 17 and 14mm spanner.
16. Timing the injector pump is easy, you just need to align the right marks. To avoid the need to remove the top cover, there is a provision for fitting a 10mm bolt onto the injector pump, which only aligns with right hole at TDC.
17. Electronic wiring diagrams are easily available on Russian websites... some charge a subscription fee of about $10 for a week. I, however, discovered that the specific 4M41 wiring diagrams are exact copies of the 4M4 diagrams we have in the freely-available users manuals.
18. To remove the immobilizer unit, you have to remove the steering wheel. To remove the steering wheel you just need one of those large torx or allen keys - either works. After loosening the torx screw holding the wheel in place, make sure to remove all electric sockets -these sockets are hidden under a plastic cover. Fail to remove them and you will rip out wires from the clockspring alongside your steering wheel. You also have to pull out the unit holding the turn signals to get to the one screw holding the immobilizer unit in place.  
19. While the immobilizer signal wire gives a 12v reading, you cannot bypass it by just feeding 12v to this green wire.  
20. The injector pump is very responsive once the immobilizer has gone off. You cant trick it into spitting out fuel by cranking the starter motor for longer than is necessary. If you cant see diesel spitting out of the four outlets after five seconds of cranking, just know that it won't release any fuel however long you try. Save your starter motor.
21. The electronic governor has voltage at pins 5 and 6, all coming from the ECU. Pin 1 feeds the stop-solenoid, but its voltage comes from a relay in the engine bay. Should be relay B25x if I remember - the one relay that sits alone in a square relay box. Also inside this box is the starter relay - one of the two big ones.

LAST BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY! Fault codes are the best guides to where the problem is. You have no reason to doubt that the ECU will throw non-existent codes. I would have saved months of heartache had I listened to the ECU telling me that I had a problem in the immobilizer line and focused my attention there instead of touching everything. In my defense, I knew nothing about diesel cars prior to this trouble, and the 'professionals' I brought to fix it are the ones who started this wild goose chase.

ALSO IMPORTANT, if you have got no-start issues with you Pajero/Montero/Shogun DiD with 4M41 motors from 2001-2006, reach out. I now know that engine-electronic system inside out.

Thanks


Last edited by bmoseti on Sun Jul 25, 2021 16:52; edited 8 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
Thanks for posting your solution, very informative.
Drew
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mwireri
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 16:28    Post subject: REQUEST FOR CONTACT Reply with quote

Hello Chief , I saw your post on the thread. I must say, That was a great job . Can i get your email so we can speak further, I have the same vehicle and I am having the same problem. Or a contact maybe ? Thanks , God Bless.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 16:59    Post subject: Re: SOLVED! 4M41 - Injector pump not sending diesel to nozzl Reply with quote

bmoseti wrote:
SoS: My 2001 pajero 3.2 DiD  (in Kenya) has been dead for almost oneyear with no solution in sight. Here's the story, I did an engine transplant from a known running car. My other engine had started overheating randomly, hence the transplant. Unfortunately, I have been unable to get the new engine running as everything works as it should but the injector pump is not releasing diesel to the injectors. I have tested the pump in another car and it runs well. I have also tested my ecu and immobilizer set on a running car with no trouble. I have replaced both fuel pump speed sensors with brand new ones. I have done continuity tests for the engine wiring harness and everything checks out as it should. I am defeated and all the mechanics, wiring technicians I have brought have not been helpful. Computerized Diagnostics do not show any fault. And when using the blink lights, I only get error 49 and 54, both of which I can clear using a launch diagnostic machine. I cant find anyone with MUT in Kenya. I honestly cant see why the pump should not be responding as I can hear all solenoids clicking on ignition, as they should. I have confirmed that diesel is getting into the pump, but just not exiting. I know there are gurus on this forum who can help and I will truly cherish your guidance on what else to look at. I have not bothered checking the accelerator pedal position sensor because everything was working well with the old engine. Please help!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 13:57    Post subject: Re: SUCCESS AT LAST! Reply with quote

bmoseti wrote:
After one year of silence, my 4m41 is now roaring. The signal wire from the immobilizer unit to the ECU (A yellow pink wire that slots into pin 52 of the ECU) had broken somewhere underneath the dashboard. In the one year of solution finding, I have made some key discoveries about the 2001-2006 pajeros with 4m41 DiD engines:

1. The immobilization only happens at the immobilizer box beneath the steering wheel. A working key and immobilizer set will work with any random ECU. As such, if you lose your chipped key or the immobilizer box fails for some reason, you do not have to change the ECU
2. ECUs from that generation are super resilient... I accidentally short-circuited the system several times, but the ECU still lived. The most damage I caused was two failed Mossfet transistors, which I was able to source from a scrap ECU and easily refit with a soldering gun.
3. The speed sensors, while they fail occasionally, are some of the most hardy parts of these cars. You can also run the car with just one injector speed sensor- one is there as a backup.
4. The injector pump is not as mysterious as we suspect. The Electronic governor especially operates like some variable resistor, hence nothing much in it to damage. I removed my electronic governor, stripped it entirely and reassembled it using a set of torx keys and a soldering gun. Refitting the electronic governor does not need calibration, it just slots in place.
5. The accelerator pedal position sensor is also a variable resistor that you can easily set with a multimeter.
6. The injector pump can run with all connectors out except the big 12 pin connector.
7. The truck can start and run with the accelerator pedal position sensor disconnected.
8. You dont need a scanner to pull out codes from these cars. Just a wire from pin one of the diagnostic connector to any grounded part of the car. The blink codes work perfectly and will not give a fault that is not present.
9. Removing the battery terminals for about 10 minutes clears all fault codes.
10. In case your blink codes are not working for some reason, a launch obd scanner gives accurate codes and clears everything including stored ABS fault codes.
11. The car can run with all vacuum hoses out, of course it won't be perfect but it will run.
12. You can correct a non-working fuel gauge by fixing dry joints behind the clock.
13. Your car will not run without proper bleeding regardless of how much you try to crank the engine. You will just be damaging your starter.
14. When working around the diesel filter, make sure to use a rag and container underneath it to prevent any fuel from getting to the starter. Starters hate diesel.
15. Removing the injector pump is a 15 minute job, with a 17 and 14mm spanner.
16. Timing the injector pump is easy, you just need to align the right marks. To avoid the need to remove the top cover, there is a provision for fitting a 10mm bolt onto the injector pump, which only aligns with right hole at TDC.
17. Electronic wiring diagrams are easily available on Russian websites... some charge a subscription fee of about $10 for a week. I, however, discovered that the specific 4M41 wiring diagrams are exact copies of the 4M4 diagrams we have in the freely-available users manuals.
18. To remove the immobilizer unit, you have to remove the steering wheel. To remove the steering wheel you just need one of those large torx or allen keys - either works. After loosening the torx screw holding the wheel in place, make sure to remove all electric sockets -these sockets are hidden under a plastic cover. Fail to remove them and you will rip out wires from the clockspring alongside your steering wheel. You also have to pull out the unit holding the turn signals to get to the one screw holding the immobilizer unit in place.  
19. While the immobilizer signal wire gives a 12v reading, you cannot bypass it by just feeding 12v to this green wire.  
20. The injector pump is very responsive once the immobilizer has gone off. You cant trick it into spitting out fuel by cranking the starter motor for longer than is necessary. If you cant see diesel spitting out of the four outlets after five seconds of cranking, just know that it won't release any fuel however long you try. Save your starter motor.
21. The electronic governor has voltage at pins 5 and 6, all coming from the ECU. Pin 1 feeds the stop-solenoid, but its voltage comes from a relay in the engine bay. Should be relay B25x if I remember - the one relay that sits alone in a square relay box. Also inside this box is the starter relay - one of the two big ones.

LAST BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY! Fault codes are the best guides to where the problem is. You have no reason to doubt that the ECU will throw non-existent codes. I would have saved months of heartache had I listened to the ECU telling me that I had a problem in the immobilizer line and focused my attention there instead of touching everything. In my defense, I knew nothing about diesel cars prior to this trouble, and the 'professionals' I brought to fix it are the ones who started this wild goose chase.

ALSO IMPORTANT, if you have got no-start issues with you Pajero/Montero/Shogun DiD with 4M41 motors from 2001-2006, reach out. I now know that engine-electronic system inside out.

Thanks


Wow, thanks for the detailed and amazing inputs about the 4M41 engine. I actually, have a Montero Gen 3, and it throws up a 48 GE errro. Was having erratic idling and low power, but, now its stopped running entirely. Would appreciate your inputs on the same. Thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 16:22    Post subject: Re: SOLVED! 4M41 - Injector pump not sending diesel to nozzl Reply with quote

bmoseti wrote:
SoS: My 2001 pajero 3.2 DiD  (in Kenya) has been dead for almost oneyear with no solution in sight. Here's the story, I did an engine transplant from a known running car. My other engine had started overheating randomly, hence the transplant. Unfortunately, I have been unable to get the new engine running as everything works as it should but the injector pump is not releasing diesel to the injectors. I have tested the pump in another car and it runs well. I have also tested my ecu and immobilizer set on a running car with no trouble. I have replaced both fuel pump speed sensors with brand new ones. I have done continuity tests for the engine wiring harness and everything checks out as it should. I am defeated and all the mechanics, wiring technicians I have brought have not been helpful. Computerized Diagnostics do not show any fault. And when using the blink lights, I only get error 49 and 54, both of which I can clear using a launch diagnostic machine. I cant find anyone with MUT in Kenya. I honestly cant see why the pump should not be responding as I can hear all solenoids clicking on ignition, as they should. I have confirmed that diesel is getting into the pump, but just not exiting. I know there are gurus on this forum who can help and I will truly cherish your guidance on what else to look at. I have not bothered checking the accelerator pedal position sensor because everything was working well with the old engine. Please help!


I think i have the same problem. I will send you a pm
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Jobbbb
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 16:26    Post subject: Re: SOLVED! 4M41 - Injector pump not sending diesel to nozzl Reply with quote

I think i have the same problem. I will send you a pm

Allright, i cannot use the function PM. Because i am a newbie Sad is there.anyone who can bring me in contact with bmoseti.  I think he is the man who can help me.
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