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2001 3.5 GDI engine stumble

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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 23:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which seals Wayne?

There was only 2 and if I take them out no fuel would get to the top of the pump housing?

Will post the pics up tomorrow and you can point them out to me Smile
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just spent the last hour downloading the photos from today and adding them to a post for here......

Won't let me post them as I haven't been a member long enough!  Crying or Very sad
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 14:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK

Removed the pump assembly and refitted the spacer I'd missed off the pump D'oh! No worries only 10 mins this time as I knew what I was doing.

Traced the fuel lines up into the engine bay and found the fuel supply hose on top of the engine.

Disconnected it and again as before directed the pipe into a container and measured the flow rate.

Result = approx 3.45 litres a minute = 207 litres per hour.

Still not able to do a pressure test but I can't see the internal fuel pressure regulator in the pump housing going weak so I'm making an assumption all is good with the pressure. (I'd still like to confirm this as I hate making assumptions)

I've done all this so far as the dealer said on the phone he'd just change the in-tank pump as theres a known fault with them.

Total price just over £1000  Surprised

Think I've now proved the in-tank pump is good and hence saved myself £1000 so far! Although still don't know what the flow rate is supposed to be which is a little frustrating.

Next task. I'd like to confirm this flow rate is correct and I'd also like to confirm the pressure readings.

If that all looks good then its the manifold off!

The car now won't run properly, although it idles fine, so I can only assume that doing this work has dislodged some debris that has clogged up the filters in the High Pressure pump further. It idles and will rev to about 2k rpm and then die back to idle again with the engine management light flickering. So its now stuck on the drive till its fixed!

Guess its time to order the head gasket set.

Options!

1.    Is the set being sold on ebay any good for what I need?

2.    Should I just make my own gaskets?

3.    Or should I buy the individual items from Mitsubishi?

I'm still stuck when it comes to these microfilters as I STILL can't get any joy sourcing them!

Wayne, hope you don't mind me asking but are these something I could order through yourself? Maybe the gaskets as well?

You've obviously done this several times already so will know exactly whats needed!  Very Happy

Cheers in anticipation of much assistance Very Happy

Simon
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waynec
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 16:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sim - Why are you orderering a headgasket set???????????????
all you will need is a manifold gasket and the 2 filters - in total should come to about £15 - £20.
You can get all from local dealer.
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 19:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

Ok

She's flying like a deram! Very Happy

Cheers for the tip about the filters, don't know how you guys get them out but it took some significant butchering to get them out and a strip down of the High Pressure pump to clean the remnants of the filters out.

Got a little fuel leak from the outlet of the HP pump but that'll be cured when the new filters are fitted as one of the seals split when I was removing the pipe.

Got about a million and one photos so anyone taking on this task in the future will be able to reference this thread. Hopefully it'll be good enough to become a STICKY as I was close to burning the old girl when it started getting worse! LOL

I now know which gaskets and bits are needed so can make up a parts list for everying as well. Just need to source these elusive filters!

Cheers again.

VERY VERY HAPPY...!  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
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nick the nurse
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 19:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

WELL DONE SIMON  thumbleft .............and same to WAYNEC for explaining it all so well  thumbright
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waynec
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 22:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done Sim,  thumbright  thumbleft if your really stuck for the filters - then let me know!!!!!!!!!!!!
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koloi
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought here..... When I replaced the throttle position sensor on a GDI a while back, I nearly did my nut in because at first it didn't work!! The throttle controller had to undergo a learning procedure.

Take your inlet manifold off so you can see the butterfly. Switch the key on and look at the butterfly. It should move slightly and come to rest. If you press the accelerator you should be able to see the butterfly moving full throttle to ide etc. (Key on engine NOT running). When you switch the key off the butterfly will do a full swing before it comes to rest. If this happens then your throttle controller is happy,  If not, the throttle controller is confused and needs to "re-learn" the throttle components.

To reset throttle controller, switch the key on and off within three seconds. Leave it off for about ten seconds and then switch it on again and it has re-learnt it's job!

I found that I had to to this even if I moved the throttle position sensor, on that particular vehicle anyway.

Good luck
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres the post I tried putting up the other day when I was prooving the intank fuel pump

Simon


OK going it alone without a manual!

Ah.... Eventually..... Found her!



Connections on top, theres the high pressure feed, the return and one which loops back around to the top of the tank which i believe is the pressure bleed off from the pump. Oh and the electrical connection is already disconnected.



And there she is out Smile





The pump itself is held in place with this cup/clip



Disconnect the pump supply



And wiggle her out



Heres my makeshift power supply to test the pump  Very Happy

So then i held the pump in a bucket and directed the outlet into a carton and turned the pump on.

Result



Empty into a measuring jug and hey presto, a measured 3.2 litres a minute. Hold finger over the outlet and was unable to stop the supply. Conclusion, HIGH pressure Smile

Seems to be a significant restriction internally in the plastic housing. I didn't take a photo, but I did separate the upper and lower halfs of the plastic body and its the lower half that is causing the restriction.

It looks like this is the part of the system that regulates the pump flow/pressure so the only way I can find out for sure is to do a flow test of the completed assembly which I'll do tomorrow.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/simon350s/Shogun/DSC03478.jpg

See the little plastic spacer..... Don't forget to refit it when you reassemble the pump unit..... My first job in the morning! LOL
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your intank pump fails, the pump itself, once removed from the housing looks identical to the intank pump available on ebay with similar flow rates so don't let Mitsubishi rip you off saying you need a complete replacement.

Take it out and test it yourself, its very easy, and if it is definately the pump source one elsewhere!

Simon
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Wicksy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 23:07    Post subject: Topic heading Reply with quote

Hi Simon,
You have stumbled - sorry - on what seems to be the most common problem on these GDI engines, namely a tendancy for the micro filters to block up and the motor to run up only to about 2k rpm and develop no power.
Full marks to you for delving into the tank pump like you did and I tend to aggree that Mitsi and the dealers are just selling tank pumps cos it's an easy fix - they definately had me Exclamation

Wicksy
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mick waite
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

[qu
ote="waynec"]Nick's spot on - mirco seals blocked, theres 2 of them, there in the pump on rear of engine.[/quote]

hi,
    i had the same problem again. last year it started to missfire at 4000 revs and in the end i had to take it to the dealer to check it out, they said it was the fuel pump and qouted around £1200 to fit it,doh! in the end they cleaned the tank out and fitted the new filters as you mentioned above, it,s now started again to happen, so i decided to fit a new pump, £140 from a local supplier ,to no avail would not start and then when i did get it start it would only rev at 2000. you mention the 2 filters at the back of the engine, we traced the pipes to a block at the back of the v but could not see any filters. could you please tell me where i could find these filters or any photo,s,or what to look for, i would be most grateful for your help.
                     cheers mickwaite@tiscali.co.uk
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 16:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mick

I do indeed have photos. Lots of them!

The pump



The pump removed



The fuel rail pipe removed and sealing washer spit!



The filter in the housing, theres 2 of these one the other side of the pump.



The filter removed



I'd recommend trying to remove the one under the supply hose first as if you destry the filet and it drops into the housing its easy to get back out! I dn't know how other got them ot but I had to butcher them and wouldn't recommend doing it that way. here must be an easy way so please if anyone knows how to do it properly please let us know!

I'd also recommend fitting a flter in the supply line to the high pressure pump, somewhere accessible so you don't have to go through this stupid procedure again!

I've got lots more photos and plan on doing a comprehensive write up next time the Mrs is on nights!

Simon
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 16:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please ignor the spelling errors..!

Rushed the reply as I had to go out quick sharp and didn't read it through... D'oh!

Would be handy if you could edit posts to correct your own mistakes!

Simon
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mick waite
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 18:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

SimonShogun wrote:
Please ignor the spelling errors..!

Rushed the reply as I had to go out quick sharp and didn't read it through... D'oh!

Would be handy if you could edit posts to correct your own mistakes!

Simon
 

thanks very much for your reply and photos, most grateful.
            we got to the bit where we took the three pipes off the top which i take is the high pressure pump, but when started to take off the solid pipe with the two bolts on it, we got a bit scared of bending the pipe as it only came out a bit.
             would there be any chance in  talking to you on the phone, if you could leave a contact #,or my #is(01283)815814.
                            thanks again. mick
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