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Increase boost pressure on 4M40

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mikka
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 13:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

It tried another half turn and seems like the boost compensator don't like boost drop, no power gain but slightly more smoky, I does feel better cruising...

Custom a manifold and a good wastegate isn't cheap... My friend recommend me to change a turbo if want to custom a manifold.... now everything is money money money Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad

I thought I can get cheap horsepower up Sad
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Pajero 4D56
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want the car to go fast,this ain't cheap i tell u Wink

Banana manifold cost about 1K a piece ..... if can custom manifold then u should take the opportunities to replace that tiny turbo to a larger one like TD06,IHI-RHF7,.etc ..... But when replace to a TD06,the flange need a little mod to fit only.....but when u need a IHI or other manafacture like Garett,you need to replace the entire flange to fit it,but this is not a big job if the manifold involved in a customising Wink

Anyway i think your engine is just not enough fuel or the compression is not in a good state.....on my MK1,whenever i turn up the fueling it can get smokey but more power i can gain.....while yours is pretty abnormal scratch

See this :
Link


A fast diesel are very smokey......i can turn the fuel-metering screw to max in but it will be very smokey and it will gain a big power too Wink
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mikka
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 0:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm currently away from my hometown and away from the pajero Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad

Ya, i know the tuned high hp diesel always have scary black smoke, that's why I need high boost to make the smoke "less".

These actually a cheaper way to install other model of turbo without changing the manifold, here is an example of the adapter flange

with this, I also can install an external wastegate...
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Pajero 4D56
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 15:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats a good news....i never seen one like that before Very Happy

If then u can just mount another bigger turbo and a external wastegate without the expensive custom made manifold....but anyway Banana Manifold will give the biggest blow to the turbo to make them spun fast then the stock one ~
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NJV6
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 18:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Austin7 eluded to you won't get boost without more fue lor if you do get a little more boost without altering the fuel chances are the vehicle will go worse as the combustion process is too cold and less than ideal.

The only way to safley tune a diesel engine is to use a Pyrometer Exhaust gas temperature probe. And don't compare tuning diesel engines to petrol, they behave totally different. The 4G93T you talked about dropping boost at high rpm is very common with std turbo engines and is computer controlled to prevent them detonating.
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mikka
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a small turbo like that installed on a 2.8L engine, I believe its not the fuel problem but is the wastegate problem. How do you explain problem like half throttle will able to keep boost at the max but full throttle unable to keep the boost?


Banana manifold will blow my pocket faster  Crying or Very sad, maybe I'll discuss with my friend who do stainless steel welding, show him my technical drawing and ask him to fabricate for me Very Happy . It won't be that difficult cause there are no precision involved. The laser cut thick stainless steel flange will be the expensive part if not wrong. I believe it can be done below RM500

I haven't found any expert tuning diesel engine around my hometown, I'll be the first one to do these mod Laughing  , maybe I'll do the mod end of this year.
During the time, I'll need to do more research and collect $$ for the mod.
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El Ricko
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 16:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikka wrote:
For a small turbo like that installed on a 2.8L engine, I believe its not the fuel problem but is the wastegate problem. How do you explain problem like half throttle will able to keep boost at the max but full throttle unable to keep the boost?


Banana manifold will blow my pocket faster  Crying or Very sad, maybe I'll discuss with my friend who do stainless steel welding, show him my technical drawing and ask him to fabricate for me Very Happy . It won't be that difficult cause there are no precision involved. The laser cut thick stainless steel flange will be the expensive part if not wrong. I believe it can be done below RM500

I haven't found any expert tuning diesel engine around my hometown, I'll be the first one to do these mod Laughing  , maybe I'll do the mod end of this year.
During the time, I'll need to do more research and collect $$ for the mod.



the turbo on the 2.8 is fine for high boost, but as i have said several times you need to get more diesel in, if you get max boost at 1/2 throttle then it fades away as you increase the throttle the diesel pump is not giving you enough fuel.

bigger turbo and fancy manifolds wont help
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Pajero 4D56
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 19:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iain,if u have been carefully see his previous post,you will find out that he state when he increase the fueling via the Fuel-Metering Screw,only got black smoke appear on exhaust but no power increase and the boost level still like before the fueling was tweaked Wink
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mikka
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

half throttle doesn't give much acceleration speed than full throttle but the boost stay 0.95bar, if i go from half to full throttle, the boost stay at max for few second and start dropping to 0.8bar. From full throttle slowly to half throttle, the boost won't increase back to 0.95bar until I fully release the pedal and put to half throttle again.
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El Ricko
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

in a moment of silly ness i got 1.5 bar out of my old 2.8 with no problem buy increasing the fueling and boost

disconnect the presure hose to the wastegate and drop it,  turn the star wheel under the diaphram 180degrees to lower the spring tension on the diaphram and ensure that their are no leake in the presure hoses from the pump to the diaphram.


are you taking your boost reading while driving on a hill or at home in the garage
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mikka
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, I'm not that newbie ok, of course playing around on the street with dangerous moves, playing with top speed... (so far didn't get caught by police Very Happy )

But what makes you think increase fueling will increase the exhaust gas flow rate that much? all I know is after combustion the exhaust gas flow rate increase due to air temp increase and the air expand, but the mass flow rate of the air is about the same.

That's mean I have the get the exhaust gas hot enough to push the turbine?
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El Ricko
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok basics, the turbo spins due to the speed of the exhaust gas's leaving the engine

on a diesel you need more and more fuel to create more and more exhaust gas to get the turbo spinning faster.


if i take my 2.8 pajero 4m40 that has the wastegate spaced by 3mm  and turn the fueling down i can get 0.6 bar max , as i increase the fueling ( namely the boost compensator) the boost presure increases proportionaly as i increase the fuel level.


ie boost is directly proportional to the fueling level.

I have been tuning diesels for 20years and writain many ecu map when i worked designing diagnosict gear for Bosch Gmbh, trust me to get mega boost levels you need lost of fuel.


if you look at the videos of the dodge ram and large cummins engines you will see so much smoke that it looks like it has blown....  that is the level of diesel fueling you need to get silly boost levels.


if you look at the ecentric code below the diaphram you will find a plastic ring, get someone to take 25% of the ring away with lathe ( or stick the pin in a drill and hold it carefully against a file)  this will allow the pin to drop further under boost and give even more fuel..
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El Ricko
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

should have read

I have been tuning diesels for 20years and writain many ecu map when i worked designing diagnosict gear for Bosch Gmbh, trust me to get mega boost levels you need LOTS of fuel.  Shocked
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Pajero 4D56
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 16:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Iain.....i now understand why those Diesel monster that will overtake and smoke a Supra that easy is because they use alot of fuel to generate a high flow exhaust gas to push the turbin to thier limit..... Smile

For Diesel,if you want to get power,don't bother about smoke,they will smoke like a chimney Wink
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mikka
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 16:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

Thanks, I'll try it when I get back to my home town....
In between I'll find an EGT system install to the car.
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