The Mitsubishi Pajero Owners Club®

[assassin]

Warning on the use of incorrect transmission fluids.

Many people are using the incorrect specification in auto transmission systems requiring Dia Queen SP III transmission fluids, this is due to confusion arising from the fact that many people believe DEXRON III is suitable, IT IS NOT SUITABLE FOT MITSUBISHI AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS requiring SP III.

This confusion arises as Dexron III is a generic specification and not a vehicle specific specification, Dia Queen SP III is far superior in specification to Dexron, so meets these specifications, Dexron specifications, being much lower, do not meet Dia Queen specifications.
Technically most Dexron III specification oils suffer from several problems, the main one's being a differing coefficient of friction, lower tensile and shear strengths, and a much lower rating for operational temperatures.

So what does this mean in real terms?

Differing coefficients of friction means oils meeting Dexron III are not as slippery as that required my Mitsubishi, in real terms it affects every aspect of the transmission from moving around the hydraulic circuits to lubricating the gears themselves.
Tensile or shear strengths means it cannot lubricate effectively when under hydraulic pressure or when between meshing components, basically it is not strong enough and will break down when under normal working stresses in a Mitsubishi automatic gearbox.
Automatic gearboxes work at higher temperatures than a normal manual gearbox, Mitsubishi's work at higher than normal temperatures and require a lubricant rated considerably higher than that of Dexron III without degredation and while still lubricating the gearbox at higher tensile loadings.

Putting in ordinary Dexron III will trash your automatic gearbox.

How did this situation arise?

Many lubricant suppliers cross reference manufacturers specifications, they see a Mitsubishi specifications list it as meeting Dexron III and list their Dexron III products as compatible for Mitsubishi, even though it does not meet Mitsubishi specifications, basically they use generic specifications for cross reference purposes. This means their literature and specification sheets used by retailers is incorrect and the wrong oil is sold to a consumer, although it is not the fault of the retailer as they work from the manufacturer information data sheets.

To date i have cross referenced many manufacturers ATF specifications, and i have only found two manufacturers whose products meet and exceed Mitsubishi Dia Queen SP III as used in later automatic transmissions, these are:

Fuchs Titan 4400 - Fuchs manufacture a range of Titan products for automatic transmissions, the only one suitable is the 4400, nothing else. Many suppliers are passing Titan 3000 off as suitable as it is Dexron III rated transmissions, but it is not suitable for later specification models.

Amsoil Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid - This again meets and exceeds the requirements of Dia Queen SP III, and is suitable for these transmissions.

Having checked the specifications of numerous large lubricant suppliers and manufacturers, i have found they all meet Dexron III standards, but not Dia Queen SP III standards; they all fall short somewhere in their specifications and durability.

What will it do to my transmission?

Any lubricant not meeting and exceeding the Dia Queen III specification cannot be used, it will break down rather quickly and turn brown then black as the clutches begin to slip, this burns the oil and turns it black, meanwhile the tensile strength and temperature quickly degrades the oil also. Ultimately it will damage your transmission, and it will be a new or reconditioned gearbox; this depends upon vehicle use and its working conditions as to how quickly it deteriorates.

At the present time it leaves only Mitsubishi main dealers, automatic transmission specialists, Fuchs Titan 4400 and Amsoil synthetic universal ATF as those i can find which are suitable replacement alternatives.

[Google]

[Tonka]

This is quite correct advice and well worth heeding  

If you visit Opieoils and log in as a member, you will get Fuchs Titan 4400 for £11.69 a litre    

[big j]

are the atf's listed above suitable for a 1997 3.5 gdi with tiptronic box?

[mick1969]

correct and great advice i always use sp111 wouldn't use nothing else, a cheap alternative isnt worth a new gearbox

[Tonka]

I can fill my auto box with 6 litres of genuine Vauxhall ATF for £15      

Trade Club is a blessing  

[ALFONSO]

what type of atf fluid should i use

[assassin]

Tonka:

Dexron specifications were originally created and licensed to General Motors, they relinquished their rights to this specification at the end of their licensing term and decided to make it open to all other oil and lubricant manufacturers. Being a generic specification meant that any lubricant manufacturer could make lubricants to Dexron, DexronII or DexronIII and they would all be suitably rated for General motors specifications I, II, or III; this left them with a lubricant which could be sold to all GM group companies with automatic transmissions. This could be Chevrolet in the USA, Opel in Germany, or Vauxhall in the UK which is a huge worldwide market for their lubricants, and considerable sales potential.
General motors did this to simplify their automatic transmission fluids and rationalise them, it created simplicity in their required range of lubricants, and allowed each specification to be manufactured in bulk which made it cheaper for the consumer, and more profit for GM vehicles serviced in the group dealerships.

Many other manufacturers used Dexron standards for their oil specifications as standards already existed, Ford, Jaguar, Rolls Royce, Land Rover, Chrysler, Dodge, and many more designed their gearboxes to run on these already standardised transmission lubricants. This gave then access to cheap bulk manufactured transmission oils currently manufactured in most parts of the world; a few manufacturers did not build transmissions to these standards of oil, Mitsubishi was the first mass manufacturer to adopt this differing approach.
The Pajero/Shogun was designed from the outset to be superior to showcase the companies engineering expertise, in fact the rest of the vehicle manufacturers are still catching up with the quality of these Mitsubishi gearboxes in many cases, this required a lubricant far in excess of the then current available. This is why Dia Queen came into existance, as a lubricant it was so superior that it was years ahead of the competition, and the only reason it was made was for the superior Mitsubishi gearboxes of the day, this meant an entirely new specification for lubricants, and obviously it had to be manufactured.

Moving on to today, we already see more specifications emerging for vehicle specific ATF's, BMW and Mercedes have recently introduced vehicle specific ATF for their new 8 speed automatic gearboxes, the bas news is that it requires changing every 24,000 miles in the case of BMW at a cost of nearly £800.

If you have an older 2.8 Pajero with an automatic gearbox, or the petrol equivalent engined vehicle you have a choice of cheap ATF which meets the requirements and specifications of the vehicle due to advances in ATF technology, and the reason it is available so cheaply. In time this will happen to the 3.2DiD engined vehicles as the oils will eventually catch up with their specifications, and this will become cheaper; by then there will be many more vehicle specific ATF's as gearbox and lubricant technology advances, and the opportunity for manufacturers to capitalise on these potential profits.

[REVOGEL]

assassin I'm Totaly confused now, RU saying that the advice I read in here several years ago to use Dextron 11/111 is incorrect for a 1994 TDI Auto exceed  Or is it only later models you are refering to . Having used it for 4/5 years with no ill effect I'm assuming Its' only LATER MODELS that need Dia Queen.
Thank for scaring the S H 1 T out of me and probably many others.  

[assassin]

I would suggest you read the post again then read it properly.

It clearly states in the first paragraph that vehicles requiring Dia Queen SP III specification fluid cannot be run on Dexron III as it does not meet the requirements of SP III unless it is Titan 4400 or Amsoil universal ATF which are the only ones which meet Dia Queen SP III specifications.

What is the recommendation for your vehicle? is it SPII by any chance, if so this is not SPIII, so does not apply to your vehicle.

Dia Queen SP III is recommended for Shogun/Pajero 2000-2006 models automatic transmissions and any others which specifically specify SP III only, not those specifying SP II/SPIII as they can use alternatives to SP II; and a number of Hyundai and Kia models which also specify Dia Queen SP III.

The moral is simple, check your oil specifications for your model, then check the specifications of any alternatives which may be used as there are many companies cross referencing DEXRON III SPECIFICATIONS and these are nowhere near the standard of Dia Queen SP III.

To be totally clear:

Dexron III specifications are much lower than Dia Queen SP III specifications

Dia Queen SP III specifications are much higher specifications than Dexron III specifications, so easily meet and exceed by a considerable margin the Dexron III specifications.

One prime example is Milners, a company who many use who are passing off Titan 3000 as suitable for SP III specification transmissions, it is not suitable for these transmissions, yet how many people requiring SP III specifications accept it as suitable because Milners recommend it. Even Fuchs the manufacturers of the Titan range say it is not suitable for SP III specified vehicles. It is suitable for those transmissions requiring SP II specification lubricants, so a suitable replacement for SP II.

[REVOGEL]

Thanks for clarifying the situation.
I did read the post several times, but was still unsure if my vehicle was among those that needed Dia Queen 111.
As for specs I am totaly reliant on this site for info regarding my motor The Haynes comic is not a lot of help.

[assassin]

Your specification is for Dia Queen SP II, most Dexron III products meet the specifications of SP II, but not all.

The situation arose as i was looking to replace my transmission fluid, i looked on Milners website and it listed Fuchs Titan 3000 as suitable for replacing both SP II and SP III, as a professional engineer it made me suspicious as specifications change on newer vehicles. I rang Milners and clarified Titan 3000 as their recommended oil for a SP III specification vehicle, they claimed it was as it was a synthetic oil; this made me more suspicious as virtually all ATF's are synthetic, as is ordinary GL specification oils for manual gearboxes these days, and has been for a while.

Such incorrect recommendations could lead to many accepting their advice and replacing transmission fluid requiring SP III specification fluids with those not suitable for SP III rated transmissions, this would obviously damage their transmissions with the obvious costs.

From here i checked out specifications from many major suppliers and found they used the Dexron III rating which again is not suitable, someone in an office transcribing the recommendation lists simply put SP III rated vehicles onto their data sheets using Dexron rated products.

With so much misinformation and incorrect recommendations, i checked a large number of specification sheets from many ATF manufacturers and found these numerous anomolies, so posted so people would check the original manufacturers specifications, and compare them to offerings from aftermarket suppliers. My intention is simple, preventing people from falling into the trap of not using the wrong oil in their transmissions, and ruining them.

All in all it opened up a right hornets nest, but hopefully it will make people aware of the situation and check before accepting a retailers word on what they incorrectly market as the correct product; most major manufacturers will have a specifications or data sheet on their website so it is easily checked.

[dpruk]

just phoned mitsi and they recon sp3 for a 94 pajero with a V4AW3-7 auto transmition in, but I'm sure I saw d2 on the gearbox sump plug  

[Captain England]

Hi Paul
According to Mitsubishi's Service specifications for the 1992-1995 Montero (page 23-5) the V4AW3 auto box requires "Diamond ATF SP, ATF Dexron 2 or equivalent" . I therefore believe you would be right to use Dexron 2.
HTH

[dpruk]

just thrown me why mitsi in warrington said SP III, I am gathering they mean Dia Queen SP III when from what has been put here is saying they are not the same

[dpruk]

Just got an e-mail back from Mitsubishi themself and here is what the said
"Thank you for your email received on the 5th August 2010.

I can confirm that the correct oil specification you will require for the below vehicle is Dia queen ATF SPIII.

I hope this information is of assistance"

Now my car is a 1994 pajero with a V4AW3 auto box so I may have damaged the gearbox using dexron 3