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geodrome *******
Age: 56 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 3357 Location: On the beach, surfin? Down under, NSW!
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 14:21 Post subject: |
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That is the shut off valve for the engine. When you turn the engine off it closes to stop air going to the engine. Has nothing to do with fuel. Run by vacuum from the unit below battery.
Stall at lights! Cause faulty pump.
Codes are a false trail when pump goes, it's not sending fuel at the right times so sensors report faults.
Bet your fuel filler pipe work is rotten and water has got in also condensation in the tank causes water. Filter does not remove it fully. |
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 14:21 Post subject: Google Ads keep the POCUK free to join! |
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neostar *
Age: 43 Zodiac: Joined: 15 Feb 2011 Posts: 43 Location: Sheffield
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 15:09 Post subject: |
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geodrome wrote: |
That is the shut off valve for the engine. When you turn the engine off it closes to stop air going to the engine. Has nothing to do with fuel. Run by vacuum from the unit below battery.
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the valve is closing when the engine is warm which is when the smoke and stuttering starts. Any ideas on why it would close or what would cause this please?
I know you have mentioned the pump before (and i am not ignoring the info) but i'm trying the easy bits first just to make sure as i really am hoping that it isnt the pump. |
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geodrome *******
Age: 56 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 3357 Location: On the beach, surfin? Down under, NSW!
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 15:28 Post subject: |
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Is it closing fully?
Have you cleaned or blocked egr valve. Is it an auto? They seem to give slightly different symptoms.
It should open fully when starting, once warm I think they may close down slightly. Then when turning off engine it shuts completely. You could have a faulty vacuum hose or solinoid.
It does not take long to have a look at the filler pipes and is a good indicator. Also take the filter off and carefully pour it into a clear container to see if it has any water in it. Another thing to do is remove the pick up unit from the tank and clean the filter. |
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neostar *
Age: 43 Zodiac: Joined: 15 Feb 2011 Posts: 43 Location: Sheffield
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 16:41 Post subject: |
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geodrome wrote: |
Is it closing fully?
Have you cleaned or blocked egr valve. Is it an auto? They seem to give slightly different symptoms.
It should open fully when starting, once warm I think they may close down slightly. Then when turning off engine it shuts completely. You could have a faulty vacuum hose or solinoid.
It does not take long to have a look at the filler pipes and is a good indicator. Also take the filter off and carefully pour it into a clear container to see if it has any water in it. Another thing to do is remove the pick up unit from the tank and clean the filter. |
Yes, as soon as the engine is warm enough it closes fully, if you manually open it while running it pus the engine management light on. I am not sure if the EGR has been blanked or not, i'm not sure where to look to check. It is an automatic |
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geodrome *******
Age: 56 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 3357 Location: On the beach, surfin? Down under, NSW!
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 17:22 Post subject: |
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Your symptoms are more like the pump, i am afraid. A manual is very lumpy (like a knocking) when starting is intermittent initially. Can go days when nothing is wrong. Pick up below 2000 is poor and needs to be above this to run right. I didn't get the white smoke sometimes black like over fuelling. But the stalling got worse re-starting was taking longer till it gave up totally.
Have a look at the topics I have replied to re the mk3 and poor running etc use the search and see if any others are similar.
http://www.pocuk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=147113
Does this sound familiar? |
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neostar *
Age: 43 Zodiac: Joined: 15 Feb 2011 Posts: 43 Location: Sheffield
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 18:57 Post subject: |
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it is similar to the problem but not exactly.
Mine starts first time every time and revs correctly. Its is only when it is warm that it has the problem.
If i am at a junction or stationary when it starts going lumpy then pressing the accelerator and getting the revs to normal tick over to sort out the problem and stops the white/black smoke.
Wouldnt a fuel pump problem be constant? Other than when the car is warm the car is perfect. It has lots of power and is a pleasure to drive, its just when it gets warm and acts up that its a nightmare. |
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geodrome *******
Age: 56 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 3357 Location: On the beach, surfin? Down under, NSW!
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 20:20 Post subject: |
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neostar wrote: |
it is similar to the problem but not exactly.
Mine starts first time every time and revs correctly. Its is only when it is warm that it has the problem.
If i am at a junction or stationary when it starts going lumpy then pressing the accelerator and getting the revs to normal tick over to sort out the problem and stops the white/black smoke.
Wouldnt a fuel pump problem be constant? Other than when the car is warm the car is perfect. It has lots of power and is a pleasure to drive, its just when it gets warm and acts up that its a nightmare. |
No not when they start to fail, mine was fine one day the not the next gradually getting worse as it wears the seals away.
I can only advise from my experiences, it is up to the individual to decide if they follow it. Very few garages will have experience of these problems as they are just starting to happen as the cars age.
Think I'll change my user name to Parrot, I keep repeating myself. (not your fault, just got a lot going on at home) |
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tom-ss *
Age: 37 Zodiac: Joined: 07 Jun 2013 Posts: 10 Location: Australia
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 13:26 Post subject: |
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Hi Geodome. Have read a number of your posts re: fuel filters.
I have similar problems to those described in this thread, although no white smoke, just black smoke. Idling poorly, surging under acceleration, stalled once. Then went ok for a week, then same thing again. Then started up ok again, now surging consistently.
My car also threw the control sleeve sensor code (I think yours did this). I understand it threw a few other codes the first time this happened.
I have cleaned the inlet manifold and blanked the EGR to no avail. From all the advice I have had so far it sounds like the pump, however, many posts talk about doing the speed sensors first. You seem to be indicating this is not an likely solution in the case in this thread?
Is there any reason you feel it is not worth doing the sensors with these symptoms? I am thinking of doing them myself, or having the mechanic do them (although he wants to charge 4 hrs work for it), but dont want to bother if in all likelihood it is just gonna be the pump.
FYI I am in Australia and a recondition pump has been quoted at $4780 AU + 10 hours labour. Apparently these are getting very rare now and bosch are even discontinuing some of the tools used by the few places that recondition them.
cheers
Tom |
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jimmyw LifeTime Member
Age: 32 Zodiac: Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 1954 Location: Cork - Ireland
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 16:55 Post subject: |
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Rob.ie on here had symptoms a bit like yours i think,He ended up replacing the tank,after replacing the fuel pump twice,turned out it had gotten a bit of a bash,and the also the pick up pipe had a hole in it. It was throwing all sorts of fault codes,and would rev up to the limiter when first started,but after some time would return to faultiness |
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geodrome *******
Age: 56 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 3357 Location: On the beach, surfin? Down under, NSW!
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 19:41 Post subject: |
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Hi tom-ss
I've just posted my experience and what i changed and did.
It basically boils down to, have you had water in the fuel tank, at any point? bad diesel, condensation or a leak which allows water or moisture to enter the system. Eg fuel filler pipes rot away. That's why there is a warning system on the filter. Unfortunately it does not stop all the moisture.
If you can strip the manifold and are handy with spanners taking the pump off is not to difficult. The critical part is making sure the engine is on tdc and you put the pump back on the marks. It will move a tooth out when it goes on home.
Speed sensors are fairly cheap and could work for you. They did not for me. I kept the new ones and sold the old ones.
G |
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The procrastinator ******
Age: 109 Zodiac: Joined: 04 Oct 2011 Posts: 1422 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 20:26 Post subject: |
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tom-ss wrote: |
FYI I am in Australia and a recondition pump has been quoted at $4780 AU + 10 hours labour |
Christ! What sort of money is it to have a pump reconditioned in UK? |
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geodrome *******
Age: 56 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 3357 Location: On the beach, surfin? Down under, NSW!
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 20:36 Post subject: |
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The procrastinator wrote: |
tom-ss wrote: |
FYI I am in Australia and a recondition pump has been quoted at $4780 AU + 10 hours labour |
Christ! What sort of money is it to have a pump reconditioned in UK? |
I paid £1800 now told it would be £3000.
You basically get a new pump, the only bit they re use is the alloy body and speed sensors that bolts to the engine. The rotor head is completely replaced. |
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The procrastinator ******
Age: 109 Zodiac: Joined: 04 Oct 2011 Posts: 1422 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 20:41 Post subject: |
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geodrome wrote: |
The procrastinator wrote: |
tom-ss wrote: |
FYI I am in Australia and a recondition pump has been quoted at $4780 AU + 10 hours labour |
Christ! What sort of money is it to have a pump reconditioned in UK? |
I paid £1800 now told it would be £3000.
You basically get a new pump, the only bit they re use is the alloy body and speed sensors that bolts to the engine. The rotor head is completely replaced. |
God thats a worry, I'm toying with the idea of getting a 3.2. Buying a low miles, full history car will cost you top money but there's still no guarantee that the pump will go the next day. I might have to buy 2 cheap ones instead and use one for spares! |
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geodrome *******
Age: 56 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 3357 Location: On the beach, surfin? Down under, NSW!
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 20:54 Post subject: |
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The procrastinator wrote: |
geodrome wrote: |
The procrastinator wrote: |
tom-ss wrote: |
FYI I am in Australia and a recondition pump has been quoted at $4780 AU + 10 hours labour |
Christ! What sort of money is it to have a pump reconditioned in UK? |
I paid £1800 now told it would be £3000.
You basically get a new pump, the only bit they re use is the alloy body and speed sensors that bolts to the engine. The rotor head is completely replaced. |
God thats a worry, I'm toying with the idea of getting a 3.2. Buying a low miles, full history car will cost you top money but there's still no guarantee that the pump will go the next day. I might have to buy 2 cheap ones instead and use one for spares! |
As I've said make sure fuel filler pipes are solid if original, if they have been changed then I would start to question things. Better safe than sorry. If filter changed regularly and good quality fuel used that will help. It is basically down to luck as to if you get a good one, same as any car you buy used. |
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tom-ss *
Age: 37 Zodiac: Joined: 07 Jun 2013 Posts: 10 Location: Australia
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 23:09 Post subject: |
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Well I certainly can't afford to change to pump twice then the tank! Would rather sell the car as a wreck.
I've always used good quality diesel. I can't comment on the previous owners treatment of the car but he appeared very fastidious (changed oil every 5000kms).
Geodome- where can I locate the fuel filler pipes to have a look? Does it involve removing the pump? Removing the pump is beyond my capabilities unfortunately. |
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