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No kick-down..strange revs behavior

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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you press the O/D button - are you switching O/D on or off?
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:
When you press the O/D button - are you switching O/D on or off?

OFF! (light on dash)
maximum gear 3rd

So the O/D button's behavour is as should be..
Its the kick down that bothers me...
I thought it was ok, but i cannot put car in 3rd gear with it...

The extra boost i get i think is from the turbo... Embarassed
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 13:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you press the accelerator pedal down hard then the revs should increase as the gearbox changes down a gear.

The boost from the turbo isn't as instant as the gearbox changing down a gear - in fact I don't really notice the boost from the turbo because it builds up gradually - I only really know that it is working because it was rebuilt last year and I have a boost gauge. Kickdown is far more noticeable.


Try driving slowly with O/D on so the car is in second or third gear. Then press the accelerator down hard and see if it changes down a gear.


Just a thought - when was the gearbox oil (ATF) last changed?
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 14:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:

Try driving slowly with O/D on so the car is in second or third gear. Then press the accelerator down hard and see if it changes down a gear.

Just a thought - when was the gearbox oil (ATF) last changed?


I drive an automatic suzuki Sx4 also.
Kick down response there, is similar to using the O/D button to go in 3rd gear...

I dont see this in the Pajero.. but there is an increase in revs..thats why i am confused.
But even after that increase in revs, if i press the O/D (off), i have extra increase, and there is definetely the 3rd gear..

Gearbox oil was added in last service, 20 days ago.
I would prefer replacing the whole of it but...dont feel comfortable to do it myself yet.
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 16:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Switching O/D off will increase the revs - O/D is like an extra gear which is added to all the gears in the gearbox, not just 3rd gear.

You can have the following gears - 1st - 1st O/D - 2nd - 2nd O/D - 3rd - 3rd O/D.

O/D works in all the gears - not just 3rd (It does on mine anyway - I think!) so switching overdrive off will increase the revs because you are effectively going into a slightly lower gear.

Ignore the overdrive thing for a while - leave it switched on and drive it normally. Then just press down the accelerator quickly and see if it changes down a gear. Unlike the turbo boost, you should notice a sudden increase in revs - much more noticeable than the boost from the turbo (that is a much more gradual increase in revs).

The kickdown behaves very much like switching your O/D off.

Leave O/D alone and see if the kickdown is actually working.

If the kickdown is not working then it maybe the cable is not adjusted properly. If the adjustment is correct then you need someone more knowledgeable than me I'm afraid. I've adjusted mine but it was working anyway and I did the sdjustment mainly just as part of general maintenance, I haven't had to mend one that wasn't working.

All I can suggest is that you play around with the adjustment of the cable to see if it makes any difference - if it doesn't then I'm afraid I'm stuck!
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 16:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you peteinchad..

I can only compare with my SX4...

For sure, i dont have same response from kick down, like i have with O/D button..

But i do have an immidiate increase on revs...(max 500) and then they start droping gradually..

I dont feel gear change..only a small boost (that's why i aske if turbo's response is like that)

And i know i am not in 3rd gear after kick down (talking about high way, where 4th gear is on) because i can press the O/D right after and THEN i understant that gearbox drop in 3rd..

Anyway..its not much problem..since i can control the car by the O/D button in hills, i will try sort it out by time..

Thats why i want to learn a few things myself, because most mechanics dont really care..they will say its ok, and that's it.
Now i also want to change disk brakes and pads. Probably i will order from UK, and find someone just to install them...
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:
Switching O/D off will increase the revs - O/D is like an extra gear which is added to all the gears in the gearbox, not just 3rd gear.

You can have the following gears - 1st - 1st O/D - 2nd - 2nd O/D - 3rd - 3rd O/D.

O/D works in all the gears - not just 3rd (It does on mine anyway - I think!) so switching overdrive off will increase the revs because you are effectively going into a slightly lower gear.


I think you are not right on this..
At least as i know from my previous automatic cars, (Pajero Io, Xtrail, Sx4) O/D just cancels the 4th gear.
So gearbox can go through 1-3 but not 4th when O/D OFF, but if ON, 4th can be engaged...
You dont see any difference in low speeds where you use 1-2-3, or in uphills where you allready climb with 3rd..
Pushing the button (O/D OFF), will make no difference (e,g drop from 3rd to 2nd gear)
It only makes difference, when you are in 4th gear, it drops to 3rd. Or when is allready OFF, doesnt allow car to go in 4th gear...

I am quite sure something not correct with my truck, if it was suppose to behave like petrol automatic cars...
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 15:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have missed this from earlier postings, but does your gearbox behave as expected when you move the gear lever from D to 2 to L at the appropriate speeds? If it does change as expected, maybe that points to a kickdown issue rather than a gearbox problem.  

Another thought. It couldn't be the A/T switch in 'Hold' mode that is preventing the kickdown change, could it? Just thinking that if the 'Hold' light on the dash wasn't working, you could be in 'Hold' mode without being aware of it.
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 15:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gearbox seems to work ok.
L-2-D and O/D.

The A/T switch is in middle (normal). Hold and Power can bee seen on dash when selected..

Thats why i staded this as probaply a kickdown porblem, on the topic's title.

The possible gearbox problem i first posted here , never appeared again after ATF fluid was filled up to the correct levels by my mechanic..

Thanks Simon!
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 16:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent!  Very Happy  I just wanted to be sure for you that the gearbox was otherwise OK as you seemed worried.
If the problem is isolated to the kickdown now then it can't be too serious.

Good luck!
Simon
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 17:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think you are not right on this..



To be honest, I'm not sure if I am right either!

I will have to try it tomorrow.

Other cars I have had did behave like that because the overdrive was like an extra gear on the final output. It put the gearbox into "overdrive! - in other words it put the ratio to greater than 1:1.

Because it was an extra "gear" after the other gears then it worked on all of them.

My Paj is in overdrive all the time - mainly because I forget that I have a button to switch it off - same as the "hold" button - never use it!

I keep hoping that one of the mobile experts like Mark or Gegs comes onto this thread soon - I am a bit limited on the details of these cars.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 19:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:

Other cars I have had did behave like that because the overdrive was like an extra gear on the final output. It put the gearbox into "overdrive! - in other words it put the ratio to greater than 1:1.

Because it was an extra "gear" after the other gears then it worked on all of them.

My Paj is in overdrive all the time - mainly because I forget that I have a button to switch it off - same as the "hold" button - never use it!

I keep hoping that one of the mobile experts like Mark or Gegs comes onto this thread soon - I am a bit limited on the details of these cars.


I may not be an expert, but I do know that overdrive is effectively an extra gear. It comes in after 3rd, unless the 'Overdrive' button is depressed. Then after overdrive is engaged the torque converter lock-up can take place.
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 20:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said - I don't ever think about it, I just leave overdrive on all the time.

I actually had the car for quite a while before I found the overdrive button! As for the A/T switch - I've not found a use for that yet!
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
overdrive is effectively an extra gear



You are right - I tried it this morning.

It seems a pointless thing to have - basically it seems to be just a fourth gear and the overdrive button just switches it off.

I can't think of any occasion when I would want to switch off fourth gear.

I had a car years ago - a manual gearbox on a Triumph Vitesse - the Overdrive definitely worked on every gear on that, it was like having eight gears.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:
You are right - I tried it this morning.

It seems a pointless thing to have - basically it seems to be just a fourth gear and the overdrive button just switches it off.

I can't think of any occasion when I would want to switch off fourth gear.

I had a car years ago - a manual gearbox on a Triumph Vitesse - the Overdrive definitely worked on every gear on that, it was like having eight gears.


I guess if you're towing a heavy load, you might want to prevent the overdrive 'fourth' gear being engaged.

Yes, I too had a car with an overdrive unit - an MGB. I seem to remember that it operated in third and fourth gears only, but could be wrong.  Overdrive units were separate gearboxes that were coupled to the gearbox output shaft. In the V4AW automatic box it's simply the final gear. This is also true of a lot of manual gearboxes, where 5th is actually an overdrive.

Did you feel/hear the torque converter lock-up engage on your test this morning?
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