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No kick-down..strange revs behavior

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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 13:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine locks up really quickly after the box goes into "4th" - usually less than a couple of seconds on a dual carriageway.

I was driving to work down country roads so it never got to lock up. I just stopped and tried switching O/D on and off in each gear. O/D didn't engage except in 3rd gear.

I rarely tow anything so I just treat mine as a four speed gearbox!

Mine does seem to be undergeared though - if it was a manual like my last Shogun then I would have changed up a gear much earlier than my Auto box does. Maybe something needs adjusting but it does about 20mpg so it doesn't seem to be using more fuel by revving more before changing up a gear.
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 15:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:

I can't think of any occasion when I would want to switch off fourth gear.

Of course you need it! I could not thing of this heavy beast not be able to stay in 3rd, either when climbing a hill, or trying to hold it downhill with not getting the brakes hot..
And while towing like Simon said..
And for my situtation (no kickdown) I could not imagine driving it and be comfortable. . Wink

With a correct kick down responce, you can have some "lower gear" benefits but would not last for long..as 4th would be engaged again..
Tanks for your testing.. Wink
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 15:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:

Mine does seem to be undergeared though - if it was a manual like my last Shogun then I would have changed up a gear much earlier than my Auto box does. Maybe something needs adjusting but it does about 20mpg so it doesn't seem to be using more fuel by revving more before changing up a gear.

Is there a chance for yours to be in "power" setting of gear box?
In the other hand...I have the same consumption (18-23mpg) and I have it in auto..  Crying or Very sad  Rolling Eyes
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 15:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:
Mine does seem to be undergeared though - if it was a manual like my last Shogun then I would have changed up a gear much earlier than my Auto box does. Maybe something needs adjusting but it does about 20mpg so it doesn't seem to be using more fuel by revving more before changing up a gear.


I thought that my 2.8 Challenger Auto was very undergeared too. I just couldn't work out why is was revving so high all the time. After much head-scratching I realised that some muppet has fitted a white dial kit for a petrol 3.0, so the rev counter is significantly over-reading!  Rolling Eyes  
Knowing the reason has put my mind at rest, but it hasn't made the vehicle any quieter, unfortunately.  Laughing

And I don't know if I can remove the white dial stick-ons without damaging the instrument panel.
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 16:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is never in "Power" or "Hold" - not really sure when I would need either of them.

The high revs I think must be normal - my dials are standard and original (but with blue LEDs in them)

" A bit blue"

It just changes up a gear later than I would do if it was a manual - it seems like changes up happen round about 2000 rpm. With a 2.8 it has enough torque to change up earlier.

There is a way to change it I think - just got to find out how.

Quote:
or trying to hold it downhill with not getting the brakes hot..


That's what brakes are for on an auto - there's sod all engine braking anyway. If I need engine braking then I put it in 2nd gear. I think that I must be a lazy driver - start it up and press a pedal!!! I do put it into 4WD every week though, just to keep everything lubricated and turning over.
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 16:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wouldn't matter if you damaged the dials if you were just going to put some more white dials on (for the correct model of course)
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rich r
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 16:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete- I think you misunderstand OD on the Mitsubishi boxes. It is purely like a 4th gear. Goes 1 - 2 - 3 - OD. There is no OD in 1st or 2nd gear, it'll only engage in 3rd if the road speed is over about 50 mph and throttle is as in the diagram below. OD is labelled as 4th gear (it's referred to as OD and 4th interchangeably in the workshop manual). The purpose of the switch is exactly the same as changing down from 5th to 4th in a manual gearbox car - ie to give you more engine revs in order to overtake or go up a steep hill. For descending hills, you're right - just select 2nd or 1st manually to get engine braking. On my 2.5 diesel, 2nd gear will let me come down some of the very steep hills we have here in North Yorkshire at about 30mph. 1st (L) drops that to about 15mph. For off road descents, I stick it in 4Llc, when it'll crawl down at a walking pace without using the brakes.



Power mode changes up later and down earlier, so keeping the engine revs higher, making it more responsive (and using more fuel!). Hold mode prevents it engaging 1st gear, so you can start on snow or gravel without wheelspinning. These are exactly the same on most Japanese automatic gearboxes - for example my old Subaru Legacy was the same (although that has a proper 4th gear, not overdrive)
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 18:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was very useful info - I had totally misunderstood O/D on these cars.

My last car was a manual 2.8 Shogun and the one before that was a Auto Pinin (I can't remember if that had O/D)

Most of the time I just potter around on local roads and the odd dual carriageway so I just treat mine like a 4 speed box (5 speed if you count the torque converter lock up).

I doubt if I will use the PWR button - I really don't want worse mpg, and it would need more than a button to get nearly 3 tons of truck full of tools to feel even vaguely "fast" !!

When I go up any steep hills (not often) then my gearbox just changes down all by itself.

I am confusing it with old-style O/D s that old British cars used to have. 4th gear was direct 1:1 drive and overdrive made the gearing higher. It was very noticeable on cars with 50 - 60 bhp because they wouldn't go up any hills with O/D on!! My Paj never felt like it was in O/D - felt more like 4th gear (which it is!)
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 18:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

That graph was very useful - mine is changing at the correct times - still feels revvy though - there is enough torque on the 2.8 to allow it to change up earlier.
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 19:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:
That graph was very useful - mine is changing at the correct times - still feels revvy though - there is enough torque on the 2.8 to allow it to change up earlier.

I double that!!
Great graph Rich..thanks!
thumbright
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rich r
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - that extra 20bhp or so on the 2.8, and also being a lighter SWB means you don't need to turn overdrive off anywhere near the amount of times those of us with LWB 2.5s do!
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

My last Shogun was a 1998 model - that had more power than my 1995 one - and it was a manual. It was still not fast though!
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 16:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just found some time to play little with the kick down cable adjustment today...

The last mechanic, set it in the maximum possible length...(although i printed the manuals diagram with 35mm)  Mad

I starter shorten it, and i went almost to the minimum (with eye measurement about 4cm or little less) when i was able for first time to have kick down responce from accelaration pedal....

I was climbing a road of 40 degrees slide maybe...and when car was in 4th, i could drop it to 3rd. Pushing o/D button was not making any difference in that stage, thing that was proof for  me that i was in 3rd gear...

I tried shorten little more, but then again didnt have response, and put it back in last position...
Didnt try it in high way yet...but seems like something change to better.... Wink


P.S. Towed this "ship" yesterday for 100kms..
Didnt even feel it was coming at the back of the truck.. Laughing

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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 17:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like now you just need to fine tune the adjustment of the cable to get it perfect.
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bravehrt17
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading some OLD (2003!) posts.... i came up with 2 questions!

1.Do  mk2 (NJ) models come with an ECU? If i have, and if i disconnect, does this reset it ?? Maybe i will see a result after kickdown cable adjastment? Embarassed

2. Kick down is engaged with a button below the accelaration pedal?? Or just with the press of the pedal, aggresivly (not in normal way to smooth accelaration) ?
(the second way, is the case in my petroil suzuki)

Embarassed  Embarassed
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