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veg oil

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sarojo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 16:43    Post subject: veg oil Reply with quote

I have just taken the plunge, after a lot of reading and put some veg oil in my 1993 2.8 pajero.
Had almost empty tank and put 40 litres of diesel in.Drove home then poured 10 litres of veg oil in then drove a little way to mix.
Will update with any problems if any interest.
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 17:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't use veg oil but people on here seem to suggest it is better to pre-mix it with diesel before putting it in the tank.

Someone with more knowledge will correct me if I am wrong.
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sarojo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 18:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I read that, but I figured that it would mix if I drove it a bit on bumpy dirt road.
Also if it's going to separate it will whilst parked overnight.
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Rob546454
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 18:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

It actually mixes better if you fill it up with veg first then go to the pump. Pre-mixing is fairly pointless in my opinion anyway as a few corners later its going to have sloshed around enough to mix.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 19:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

sarojo wrote:
Yes I read that, but I figured that it would mix if I drove it a bit on bumpy dirt road.
Also if it's going to separate it will whilst parked overnight.


Shaking a jerrycan full of 'mix' will mix it much better than any bumpy road/corner. Particularly when it's still fairly cold outside, you don't want the veggie oil to form a layer in the tank that could then go waxy. Once it's been properly mixed it won't separate overnight.  

I run my 2.8 on a 50/50 mix all year round, but be warned that running on veggie oil or a mix can find weaknesses in the pump seals quite quickly.  When my fuel pump leaked I had it overhauled by Diesel Bob. Injectors were done too. Well worth the money although it did eat up my first year fuel savings. The engine ran much more smoothly after the overhaul, and it's remained that way.  Very Happy
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sarojo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input, my front pump seal has been replaced.
I think for now I will carry on mixing in tank as I can't really see a problem with it.
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rich r
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously - mix it outside and pour it in. You'll never get it to mix properly in the tank, and you'll find in cold conditions a thick layer of veg oil can form that the pump struggles to pull through the pipes. People have carried out tests and shown this to be the case, as diesel and veg oil have similar but still different densities. Once mixed it takes weeks for them to start separating, by which time you've used it. If you've got a FPHE then this doesn't matter so much, but if you're running a standard fuel system it can be.

I buy filtered, dewatered WVO in 100 litre quantities and keep it in a barrel in my garage. At this time of year it's really quite thick compared to diesel. To make up a mix, I use an electric pump to pump 10 litres of WVO into a 20 litre container, then add 10 litres of diesel from a jerry can filled up at the petrol station (the maximum you can legally buy in one container from a public filling station, although you can often get away with using a 20 litre jerry can if nobody notices). Then I shake that container thoroughly - you can see the layers disappear and a single colour of liquid form, and then use the pump to pump that into the Pajero's tank. Then repeat up to the amount of diesel I've got in jerry cans.

And finally record that I've put 20 litres of veg oil/diesel mix in a record book. This is a legal requirement of using veg oil as a fuel - you need to be able to prove that you're not using more than 2500 litres in a 12 month period. And it's the fuel you put in the tank, not the amount of veg oil you use that counts.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

rich r wrote:
Seriously - mix it outside and pour it in. You'll never get it to mix properly in the tank, and you'll find in cold conditions a thick layer of veg oil can form that the pump struggles to pull through the pipes. People have carried out tests and shown this to be the case, as diesel and veg oil have similar but still different densities. Once mixed it takes weeks for them to start separating, by which time you've used it. If you've got a FPHE then this doesn't matter so much, but if you're running a standard fuel system it can be.

I buy filtered, dewatered WVO in 100 litre quantities and keep it in a barrel in my garage. At this time of year it's really quite thick compared to diesel. To make up a mix, I use an electric pump to pump 10 litres of WVO into a 20 litre container, then add 10 litres of diesel from a jerry can filled up at the petrol station (the maximum you can legally buy in one container from a public filling station, although you can often get away with using a 20 litre jerry can if nobody notices). Then I shake that container thoroughly - you can see the layers disappear and a single colour of liquid form, and then use the pump to pump that into the Pajero's tank. Then repeat up to the amount of diesel I've got in jerry cans.

And finally record that I've put 20 litres of veg oil/diesel mix in a record book. This is a legal requirement of using veg oil as a fuel - you need to be able to prove that you're not using more than 2500 litres in a 12 month period. And it's the fuel you put in the tank, not the amount of veg oil you use that counts.


Good advice re pre-mixing and record keeping Rich.  Smile  

As a matter of interest, how much do you pay for filtered, dewatered WVO?  I didn't know it was available for purchase.
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rich r
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a friend who gets waste oil from where he works, and also buys it from various places. Then he processes it in his garage. Have a look on the various veg oil forums to find people selling it in your area - you should be able to get it for under 30p a litre in need of processing, or a little more if it's been processed.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

rich r wrote:
I have a friend who gets waste oil from where he works, and also buys it from various places. Then he processes it in his garage. Have a look on the various veg oil forums to find people selling it in your area - you should be able to get it for under 30p a litre in need of processing, or a little more if it's been processed.


Thanks Rich. That's really helpful. I'll have a look on veg oil forums to see what I can find.

Of course there's another big potential saving by using petrol instead of diesel in the mix, as I understand it's much more effective at thinning the veg oil - so the ratio of pump fuel to veg oil can be drastically reduced.  Have you tried it? I'm tempted, but haven't done so yet. My 2.8 is currently running so well that I'm reluctant to experiment.  Rolling Eyes
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rich r
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, a little bit of petrol works well for thinning - especially if you're running 100% veg (with a FPHE). I've really just been running a 50/50 mix right the way through the year, though this summer I might push it up to 70/30 maybe.
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sarojo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information, I thought it was 2500 of veg oil but it's 2500 of mix is that correct.
Has anyone else had problems mixing in the tank?
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rich r
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 13:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - going back a few years there were several people on here who had problems especially in winter. That's why we tend to recommend mixing outside the tank. Also you'll find the alternative fuel forums full of recommendations to premix. In summer you might get away with it - but the ratio of veg oil to diesel you're running on won't be consistent, so might lead to odd surges in power.

I know it seems an extra faff, but there's nothing worse that going out to your Paj at 7am on an sleety, windy morning and finding it won't start because the fuel pump is trying to suck something with the consistency of golden syrup. Sad
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sarojo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 14:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok,just obviously a lot easier to chuck it in.
If you want to fill from empty seems alot of mixing.
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rich r
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 16:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, but it avoids problems. Get yourself an electric pump, some hoses and some containers and it gets a lot easier and less messy. My pump is mains powered and will do about 40 litres a minute. I've fixed it to the wall of my garage above where my veg oil barrel lives, so the hoses stay coiled up neatly on top of the barrel when not in use. The hardest bit is getting the diesel because of the restrictions on how much filling stations are willing to sell you in containers (despite there being no realistic limit on transport and storage of diesel, which isn't explosive like petrol).

I suppose you could maybe half fill the Paj with diesel at a filling station (eg 40 litres), then pump that out into a barrel at home, pump in 40 litres of veg oil, give it a good stir then pump it all back into the Paj. Hmm, might give that a go if I can get a pipe down the filler into the tank Smile
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