The Mitsubishi Pajero Owners Club®

[sarojo]

Would it work out better if I was to mix say 5 litres of diesel to 15 litres of veg oil then pour that in tank on top of neat diesel in tank, just a thought to make it easier,would that make it mix better?

[Google]

[rich r]

That would be better, yes. It still probably wouldn't mix totally, but it would mix more than neat veg oil.

[dannypaj]

I've found a mix of 95% filtered WVO, 5% Petrol and 0.1% 2-EHN work well all year round.

I'm pretty sure it's only the bio-fuel which counts towards the 2500L limit. Not the overall mix. Otherwise you'd be double counting diesel/petrol which has already had the tax paid at the filling station within a 'tax free' count.

[Rob546454]

What do you use the 2-EHN for? To increase the cetane rating? How did you work out how much to put in?

[rich r]

No it's definitely what you put in the tank that counts towards the limit. The wording on the HMRC document is quite clear.

It only becomes a road fuel when it's put into a vehicle (or a container that's intended to put it into a vehicle). So you could have 50 litres of 1% veg oil and 99% diesel, but it's still 50 litres of fuel, so you would be taxed on 50 litres. Obviously as the general public we don't have much option but to buy diesel and petrol from a filling station so we've already paid tax on the diesel, but if you were commercially producing a fuel you'd be buying it from a supplier and not paying tax on it as it won't be classed as a road fuel at that point.

The 2500 litre per year exemption for small volume road fuel producers (which is what you are if you make something that's then used to power a vehicle) is good though, as for most people like us, 2500 litres is more than you'll use in a year anyway. As long as you keep records as described in the HMRC document (date and quantity of when you put a mix in the vehicle - it's composition isn't relevant) then you're covered should you be asked to prove you aren't evading tax.

[vijay]

[Rob546454]

I was considering blending with kerosene, as its good for thinning veg, and its cetane rating is a bit too high on its own but would balance out with veg.

[rich r]

Unfortunately kerosene is illegal to use in road fuels.

[Rob546454]

not if the duty was paid...

[rich r]

I think it's not allowed on a pollution or transportation classification basis rather than a tax one, although it's not something I've ever looked into.

You can use it as an aviation fuel though, so maybe put some wings on the Paj and claim you're just taxiing

[dannypaj]

[rich r]

I think we'll agree to disagree.

When I started using SVO (and then WVO), I got a certified bookkeeper friend who does tax returns for small businesses to check up, and what she found agreed with what's generally posted on the various alternative fuel websites. Any fuel that contains significant quantities biologically derived non-mineral components is a biofuel. That means diesel+veg is a biofuel. The exemption applies to 2500 litres of self-produced biofuel, not 2500 litres of liquids added to an existing liquid that you may or may not have paid some level of tax. Yes you could probably claim back the tax you'd paid on the diesel if you bought it from a filling station, but it's not worth the effort for the majority of people. If you're producing over 2500 litres a year, then you'll have to do the tax return anyway, and can include the tax already paid on the diesel so you don't have to pay it twice. The exemption is so that people using small quantities don't need to worry about the tax return.

To be honest if you're keeping decent records and can produce them, any inspector will almost certainly wave you on your way and not waste their time. They're after people flagrantly evading tax by using agricultural diesel or things that are nasty for people's health like used engine oil.

[dannypaj]

Here's a link for the latest notice from the HMRC regarding the 2500L limit and other related things.

Excise Notice 179e: biofuels and other fuel substitutes
Published 1st June 2014

Interesting to find out that the 2500L tax free allowance applies to personal use and business use. I thought it was just for personal so I couldn't use in a company car. Might have to start running my own car for work and give the company one back. That would be 40p/mile. Great if the fuel is free, but not sure what the company would think of it though.

[Simon_W]

Thanks for the link.

I interpret it that 2,500 litre limit applies to the vegetable oil and not to any diesel/vegetable oil mix that's prepared prior to putting in the vehicle tank.

[Jowter]

I have used svo & done many miles without problem just pouring 30 to 40% veg into the truck's tank of 70 to 60% diesel and relying on the motion of driving to mix it sufficiently. It does get well bashed around in there especially when the tank gets lower, you're only MIXING the molecules and not chemically dissolving / fusing / de-esterificateringtrygliceriateringetcetcetc. them together.  It's not been a problem.

You only pax tax or make allowance for (2500 limit) what you pour into the tank, not what's already in there so is HERMIT going to stand & watch you pour it in or ask if you mixed it in a tub before you did?.

If you twin-tank it then same applies, you can use 2500 litres of svo plus whatever diesel you like.

I've not read that latest 2014 just now (might have done sometime) but from what I have read previously; commercially producing refers to commerce as in selling what you produce. So I take it that you can use the svo limit in your own company vehicle.

I've not so far heard of anyone being chased up on whether they've exceeded their limit.  I just enjoy "Exceeding" my svo