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Sat Nav system - Has it lost it's way?

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Jagrunner
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 13:33    Post subject: Sat Nav system - Has it lost it's way? Reply with quote

Hi everyone, My 2004 3.2 Shogun Elegance has the Mitsubishi Sat Nav system fitted as standard. The system works, in that it loads up and even gives route directions etc. The issue is that it appears not to know where it is!
Despite living in Cheshire, it has the current location somewhere in the Irish Sea! Occasionally, it does try to relocate & has been  in Scotland & the lower Lake district, but can't seem to find its proper current location.
I've disconnected/ reconnected all the attached power cables and driven around for miles in the misguided hope that it will find the correct location, but all to no avail!
Is there a sensor that detects it's location? If so where is it & can I replace it?
I know the system is rather poor, but as it is fitted, I'd like it to be working, not least for when I come to eventually sell the vehicle.
Can anyone out there help?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 13:33    Post subject: Google Ads keep the POCUK free to join!


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radiomike
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 22:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the GPS antenna is connected and that it is mounted horizontally with no metalwork above it.  It is usually a small black box about 50x50x12mm.
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Davelincs
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure but Can you check via the settings, the number of satellites you are picking up, this should indicate if it's the Atenna that's at fault
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rich r
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had something similar with the satnav on my Subaru Outback which is based on a Kenwood DV3300 (same as used in Range Rover, Volvo, Mazda, Ford, Jaguar and others). I'm not sure what Mitsubishi used, but I guess it'll be similar.

Most factory fitted satnav systems use a combination of GPS data and accelerometer and speed data. GPS signals can be lost if travelling in an area with a lot of tall buildings, mountains, tunnels or tall trees so by using information about how fast the car's going, how fast it's turning and which way it's pointing it can use dead reckoning to try to work out where you are. But obviously that can go astray if it has no proper reference points. Usually there's enough data from GPS even in a city to give it a proper fix every now and then to correct itself. You'll find that you can make a manual correction to the position and angle data if it's not quite right, but it's only meant for a few metres inaccuracy, not 20 miles Sad

In my case I found that in a certain specific circumstance, it'd lose all GPS satellite locks and be running on dead reckoning alone. That would be fine for a while, and then it'd wander off the road and get confused (as it'd keep trying to snap the location to a road that might be on my route). If I put the satnav in diagnostics mode so I could see how many satellites it had, it'd drop to zero and then wander off.

The cause? A FM microtransmitter I was using to play music from my phone on the radio. If it was tuned to 87.5MHz it'd wipe out GPS reception. Turn it off and 7 or 8 satellites would quickly come back on the system and everything would be normal. Turn it on and they'd drop off within a minute or two. The solution was simply to retune it to 108MHz Smile Once the interference was gone it had no trouble.

So I would see if you can work out how to put the satnav into a mode where it'll show you what satellites it can see. On my Honda CRV it's just in one of the settings menus, on the Subaru you have to press a specific part of the touchscreen and then enter a PIN.  If it's not seeing any - check for sources of interference, and whether the GPS antenna is connected or obscured.
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Jagrunner
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 14:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips everyone.
Where would I find the Sat Nav antenna?   I have checked all the connections on the back of the unit and all are (or appear to be) sound. I guess the cable that does look like an Ariel cable is the antenna cable at the unit end and obviously, if that is the case, I could follow it to find the antenna box. However if I knew where to look, it could save me a lot of time and needless pulling apart of the dash, unless of course it is behind the dash!
As for losing the GPS signal, that sounds quite feasible. It does try now and again to find a location and as stated previously, it's location has moved several times since it started to give false readings.
I do have some instructions that came with the Shogun, so I guess that i'm going to have to try and figure out how to reset the system.
Could it be that the GPS Antenna is at fault giving corrupted information?
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Jagrunner
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 14:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

A further update. I've just been on the "settings" menu via the remote control and where the menu lists "GPS Information" there is a blank, which suggests no GPS signal. Also when I try and input a destination, the system tells me that there is not sufficient information!
I would therefore assume that no GPS signal is being received. Question now is, is it the antenna?
If so, is it a Mitsubishi part that is required or can you buy aftermarket ones, as with car Ariel's?
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rich r
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 14:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antennas only receive a signal, they don't change it. Hence you need to find out if the satnav unit is receiving signals from satellites or not. I suspect the antenna will be in the dashboard - they're often above the instrument panel, in the sunshade bit. Usually a box no bigger than 5cm x 5cm x 1cm.

Unfortunately I don't have any Mark 3/4 documentation with me at the moment, otherwise I'd see what I can find out about getting the satnav to show its GPS status, and where the antenna might be.

Easiest way to reset it if you can't find it in the menus would be to disconnect it from the wiring loom for 30 seconds. Or if you're really desperate, disconnect the car battery... You may find when you reconnect it that it wants you to start the engine and leave it for 15 minutes or so for it to acquire satellites. I know Alpine units are like this (eg like in my Honda CRV). Effectively it needs to listen for all possible satellites until it receives at least three. Then it knows the rough location and the date and time so it can look in its database to find which satellites should be visible and what frequencies they transmit on. Then it can focus on looking for a signal from those satellites only meaning it can get a more accurate fix. The more it receives from, the more accurate the position. Usually you should get about 6 to 8 for a fix accurate to a couple of metres. Once the unit knows the date and time within a few minutes of UTC, and its location within a few hundred miles, it'll acquire satellites almost instantly the next time it's switched on.
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Jagrunner
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 18:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for your reply. I have had all the connections disconnected from the back of the unit  for at least a couple of minutes. This would have the same effect as disconnecting the battery I assume?
It does seem to be unable to locate satellites and therefore, cannot find it's location. I assumed, that in order to receive signals from satellites, the GPS antenna must be working properly? If the antenna was faulty, then that could explain why the unit is unable to get a fix on any satellites?
When scrolling through the menu, there is a section labelled GPS Information, which in the past has given satellite location readings. This section now has no information shown, again, another reason why I suspect that no information is being received.
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medicman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 20:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I fitted a whole sat nav system to my warrior a few years ago and if I remember correctly if was stuck on top of the screen,

It was magnetic and the wire to it fitted into a little silver box about size of 10 cigarettes packet, the antenna was black and oval

About 2 inches across, and both were wired into sat nav box that's under passenger front seat, LWB and under glove box SWB

That's the box the disc slots into.

Hope this helps
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rich r
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK - it does indeed sound like either the antenna has failed (very unusual) or there's some electrical interference preventing it receiving a signal.

Unfortunately I can't think of any easy way to test the antenna easily, other than plugging in a different one (I can think how I would test it, but I may have equipment you don't as I'm an electronics engineer).
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Jagrunner
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your assistance. I'm awaiting a replacement used antenna that I got hold of very cheaply, so if it doesn't work I haven't lost much! When it arrives, I'll swap them over and see what happens (if anything). Hopefully, it'll work, otherwise it's back to the drawing board! Thanks again to all of you for your helpful comments.
I will lt you know the outcome.
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radiomike
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 12:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you locate the original one, you will kick yourself if you find it has simply fallen behind the dash somewhere?  As Rich wrote, the antennas are robust components and rarely fail.

Take care when working on the system as it is an active device and takes a 5v feed from the nav unit via the centre core ie don't go cutting the lead if the system is switched on and the antenna plugged in.
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Jagrunner
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 18:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't as yet located the original antenna and I'm taking a chance that it is faulty. Following your advice radiomike, I'll try and trace the antenna lead from the unit to behind the dash and locate the antenna. It just could be that the antenna has fallen behind somewhere, something that didn't occur to me!
However, I bought the replacement cheaply, so no big loss if it just needs remounting.
I'll maybe give it a look at tomorrow, at least I will know if the antenna is in place or not. I'll let you know!
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 18:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't it be easier to just connect the new antenna and put it on the top of the dash? Easier than finding the old one.

If the new antenna works then replace the old one - if it doesn't then it isn't the antenna at fault.
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rich r
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 19:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be where it can 'see' as much of the sky as possible - most likely in the top of the dashboard not too far from the windscreen. Certainly I know the Subaru Legacy/Outback and Honda CRV ones are both directly above the speedo, and you can get to it by taking the instrument panel out (as if you were going to change some bulbs).

When you get your new antenna, stick it outside the car on the roof to give it maximum chance of receiving satellites. If it gets a fix, then try putting it inside the car, on top of the dashboard. If it can still see satellites, and with the engine running etc, then try a test drive. And then finally fit it where the old one was when you know it's solved the issue.

There's still the possibility of interference causing poor reception, which obviously a new antenna may not resolve.
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