The Mitsubishi Pajero Owners Club®

[offroad68]

Well after 18 months messing with it I give up, I got it running but rough, give it a garage to look at and they relieve me of £620 to make it not run at all!!! Ask for help with it but nothing even a local guy keeps saying he will have a look at it but lets me down, its not like I am not willing to pay. As a non runner it is now in the way so it is for sale.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mitsubishi-Pajero-Evolution-rally-raid-comp-safari-4x4-race-buggy-evo-/201495450205?ha

[Google]

[gregorypestelle]

"whats the best price for cash today mate"  

Looks like you'll be breaking it for parts as you'll never get £8k for it the way it is

[hutchy]

i think thats why thornton,s got rid of it,i saw the add on the bay and i am sure it said something about the ecu,but if you had it running,couldn,t be that......

maybe try advertising it on some of the rally sites because i think you will struggle to make that on fleabay....it just a shame when people let you down...

[offroad68]

When you try to start the engine it goes over ok but keeps on stopping for a split second, I am thinking it is because of the starter motor alignment problem but now wonder this.....

As I understand it some vvt systems work on oil pressure, I know the honda v tec does and I believe the bmw system does as well. Does the mivec do the same? the reason I ask is because this garage who relieved me of good money to make things worse have this engine decontamination system which no doubt they paid good money for and try to use when ever they can, they did it on my engine supposedly because the engine had some petrol in the oil, I am sure the petrol would have come out with the oil without a problem. With this system hot oil is forced under pressure through the engine via the oil filter connection, I wonder if forcing the oil through could have activated and maybe jammed/stuck the vvt on??? and the engine will not start with the extra valve lift/ duration??? It did not have this problem before the engine decontamination treatment was done it started quite easily.

Maybe putting it up for sale was a bit of a knee jerk reaction, it is a classified ad so I can do what I want.

Still thinking of other ways of getting it sorted if I can not sort this engine out and I am sure I could get decent money for the engine if I break it down and sell the bits, as new bits are expensive if available at all.

I read people have put the v6 3.5 non mivec engine (the gdi is it ?) in to the evolution, would it go stright in and mate up to the same gearbox? I assume I would need the full loom out of the donor car? Any one done it and interested in fitting one in my car for me as a paid job?

[hutchy]

i will be honest i do not know how the mivec system works on the mitsubishi,i know how the vvt on the honda,s work like you said it,s oil pressure that engages another set of cams which lock into place to give more lift and duration....and knowing mitsubishi they would have wanted it to be better than every one else,or at least at the time the evo was built...

yes you could fit a gdi engine but you would need all the wiring and it,s ecu,s there,s quite a few,it should work on the manual box,but i don,t think the 1997 range gdi,s were offered with a manual box,but if it were me i would maybe look at a standard 3.5 v6 or better still if you could get one a 6g75 3.8 v6 engine,or if you really wanted a beast drop a lexus v8 engine in which is a popular conversion,and there are loads who have done it to standard mk2 paj,s and a guy on here dropped one in his 3.2 mk3...do a search on google....

as for these garages doing these so called power cleans,they do more worse than good,there is nothing wrong with changing and flushing oil the way most of us have done since the dawn of motoring,so i am suspecting they may have caused a fault but what,but at the same time did the people thorntons got to rebuild the engine do the job right,there are a hell of a lot of shady engine rebuild places around them,i know i have come across a few.......

the problem you face is firstly cost,then the patients to do it,and then when it,s done are you going to keep it or get bored and get rid at quite a loss off cash.....if you have the time the cash and are planning on keeping then if were may change the engine and try and sell the one that comes out,even spares or repair it will still be worth cash to the right person,

have a look at this....link

[offroad68]

Thanks Hutchy, It seems the mivec at least on the early version like fitted to the pajero evolution is controlled by the oil pressure, it holds the valves open more and for longer. I am thinking if the mivec is some how jammed open (due to pressure rammed in where it should not have been) each cylinder is getting to bigger gulp of air/petrol mixture than it should and the starter motor has trouble compressing it. If that is the case not got a clue as to how to go about releasing it, Rocker covers off?

[hutchy]

i would imagine there will be some sort of solenoid control type unit on the engine somewhere that would increase the oil pressure when needed,i will do some searching and see what i can find,

[tom fenton]

Sounds to me like an ignition firing order or ignition timing problem. Engine is trying to fire at the wrong time which stalls the starter,

[hutchy]

not found much info but you can have a read of this.......
MIVEC (Mitsubishi Innovative Valve timing Electronic Control system) is the brand name of a variable valve timing engine technology developed by Mitsubishi Motors. MIVEC, as with other similar systems, varies the timing, lift and duration of the valves by using two different camshaft profiles. At low speeds, a mild (low-lift) cam lobe provides stable idle, lower emissions and increased torque at lower speeds, while above a fixed engine speed a second set of cam lobes are activated, providing higher lift and duration; therefore a greater quantity of air into the combustion chamber which increases the power and torque output over a broad engine speed range.

Some types of variable valve control systems optimize power and torque by varying valve opening times and/or duration. Some of these valve control systems optimize performance at low and mid-range engine speeds. Others focus on enhancing only high-rpm power. MIVEC system provides both of these benefits by controlling valve timing and lift. The basic operation of the MIVEC system is altering the cam profiles and thus tailoring engine performance in response to driver input.

In essence, MIVEC serves the same function as "swapping cams", something that car racers might do when modifying older-design engines to produce more power. However, such swaps come with a compromise - generally yielding either greater low-end torque or more high-end horsepower, but not both. MIVEC achieves both goals. With MIVEC, the "cam swap" occurs automatically at a fixed engine speed. The cam switch operation is transparent to the driver, who is simply rewarded with a smooth flow of power.

Two distinct cam profiles are used to provide two engine modes: a low-speed mode, consisting of low-lift cam profiles; and a high-speed mode. The low-lift cams and rocker arms - which drive separate intake valves - are positioned on either side of a centrally located high-lift cam. Each of the intake valves is operated by a low-lift cam and rocker arm, while placing a T-lever between them allows the valves to follow the action of the high-lift cam.

At low speeds, The T-lever's wing section floats freely, enabling the low-lift cams to operate the valves. The intake rocker arms contain internal pistons, which are retained by springs in a lowered position while the engine speed is below the MIVEC switchover point, to avoid contacting the high-lift T-shaped levers. At high speeds, hydraulic pressure elevates the hydraulic pistons, causing the T-lever to push against the rocker arm, which in turn makes the high-lift cam operate the valves.

In summary, MIVEC switches to the higher cam profile as engine speed increases, and drops back to the lower cam profile as engine speed decreases. The reduced valve overlap in low-speed mode provides stable idling, while accelerated timing of the intake valve's closing reduces backflow to improve volumetric efficiency, which helps increase engine output as well as reduce lift friction. High-speed mode takes advantage of the pulsating intake effect created by the mode's high lift and retarded timing of intake valve closure. The resulting reduced pumping loss of the larger valve overlap yields higher power output and a reduction in friction. The low- and high-speed modes overlap for a brief period, boosting torque.  

[mark dale]

What sort of price would it be worth if it was running OK do you think?  - Would you keep it, or sell it on?

Mark " fancies a rally raid Paj   " Dale

[hutchy]

must be starting a museum by now mark

[offroad68]

Thanks for the replys, looks like I have some progress it does not look like it is the mivec that is the problem.
I had some help tonight and the engine seemed way to tight to turn over without plugs in it, it was also making some screeching noises eventully we noticed a score on the front of the flywheel, as I said on the e bay ad the bell housing has been cut back where the starter motor sits but it did not work by the looks of it so it has spacers to push the starter back out again these "spacers" are actully nuts and washers, we think one of the nuts has dropped in between the flywheel and the engine block but we can not see it we can only see a fresh score mark all the way around the flywheel and bits of swarf.
We are going to pull the engine out, it might well be less trouble than pulling the gearbox off and if it turn's out that is not the problem we can look deeper in to the engine.

mark dale, I still want to use it if/when I get it sorted, if you look on e bay there is another rally prepared pajero evolution which is as far as I am aware the only other one in the uk and at that price seems cheap compared to the ones I have seen in europe.

[offroad68]

Managed to make a gap between the engine and gearbox so I can see up behind the flywheel and I can not see anything jammed in there, decided to carry on and the engine is ready to be lifted out now so we can have a proper look at it.

[hutchy]

that is a good wise move,maybe inspect the gear box whilst your at it

[offroad68]

Right so we (me and 2 guys who know a lot more about the engine than I do) got the engine out and decided to start to pull it apart, everything on the heads looks fine and still with the heads off the engine was stiff to turn over, the guys with me said  with it getting to much petrol in to it it looks to have washed the bores and there were signs of rust, (it has stood for 8 months without running) we took the sump off and removed the pistons, each piston we took out freed the crank off a bit more and on close inspection the rings are slightly rusty and pitted. I am told that the bearing shells, the crank etc are all fine, it needs the bores honing a new set of rings gaskets and putting back together.

So it looks like the engine itself will be good but I am unsure what to do, I want to use this car to do some of the smaller rally raids, toureg, Hellas rallys etc which costs a lot to even get the car to the event so I have to make sure it is reliable, If I put this engine back it I still do not know it will work ok because the loom ect has been messed with so I am thinking should I put a modern turbo diesel engine in it instead.
Many venicles in rally raid use a 3.0 bmw stright 6 diesel, in fact rally raid uk do a loom to make this engine easy to use in a different car. The length of a stright 6 might well be a problem but I am a fabricator . Maybe there are other engines that might work as well but I am thinking getting spares etc will be less of a problem than trying to keep the Pajero Evolution engine running especially if it is being raced.

So what I am thinking is to offer this Pajero Evolution engine up for sale as it is (in bits) and it can be inspected, then If I can get a good price for it let it go and use that cash to fit a modern diesel, if no good offers carry on and rebuild it safe in the knowlage that the engine itself is good.

The engine has had all the parts marked where they came from ect to make reassembly easy, I know it was rebuilt around 2 years ago with a new block costing over £3000 and a total bill of over £5000 and done very little since, I have had it for about 18 months.

So if you are interested make me an offer assuming what I am saying is correct, then if I accept your offer come and inspect it and take it away if you are happy.

Thanks Lee.