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96' Pajero hunting and odd idle issue

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Taraswolf
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Age: 66
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

what i have now noticed on mine is if i stand behind the car while its ticking over as soon as it starts to misfire/hunt/tickover drops the second it does it big puff of black smoke belches out of the exhaust every single time. i take it these electronic fuel pumps can adjust the fuel air mix ! so i take it for whatever reason from a sensor possibly the ecu is being told to richen/over fueling the mixture for that split second causing it to hunt !
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wales660
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 14:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'm doing at the minute is adjusting the throttle tickover via the choke lever inside the car and locking it off.
Basically just taking the slack up so it still ticks over at 750 rpm when warm. This has improved things by 90%. So from cold I start the pajero and let it warm up and if your observant enough you will hear a click when it's warm. Then I drive off which then gives me a pretty good idle at 750 rpm and it behaves when approaching junctions etc. By no means the solution but certainly liveable.
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Taraswolf
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Age: 66
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 16:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

so this afternoon i have had the egr valve and the other 2 vac valves next to the egr off the car they were totally crudded up and minging so jet washed and carb cleaned them also removed the little vac valve to the left of the egr thats in the top of the inlet manifold its 23/24mm spanner to get it off you should be able to suck thru it mine was very hard to suck thru so that got the carb cleaner treatment aswell till it was coming thru clear much easier to suck thru now. put it all back together and it stuttered twice in the 10mins it sat ticking over stone cold HUGE difference before it was doing it every 10/15 secs i have still got the egr valve/vac pipe disconnected with a small bung in it but very noticable difference.
iv taken some pics but for whatever reason i carnt get photobucket to upload my pics is there another site that does the same as photobucket i can get on to upload my pics to for this forum !
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Taraswolf
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Age: 66
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 16:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha got photo bucket working heres the pics from this afternoon.

as you can see EGR Vac pipe disconnected and bolt in it, this was before i pulled it apart.
[img][/img]

this is my pump do you know if the kickdown cable is adjusted the same as the 2.5/2.8 mechanical pumps ?
[img][/img]

the 2 vac valves little small 1 open all the time the large 1 when its going up the rev range i assume opens up to allow the compressed air from turbo to get to the engine.
[img][/img]

intake manifold side all cleaned up it was proper minging
[img][/img]

totally minging in here and this was after a clean ! to the left is the little vac valve i removed and cleaned up as it was partially blocked
[img]http://[/img]

heres the above vac valve out
[img]http://[/img]

this is the top of those vacs the sended/sensor was totally full of crud where the threads are again good dose of carb cleaner.
[img]http://[/img]

totally blocked up solid !  Shocked  EGR valves what a joke. who invented them needs  violent1
[img]http://[/img]

will let you know if it starts playing up again this week using it for work,
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TOMMYN
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did this cure your problem in the end, mine was doing exactly the same and I tried everything to resolve problem, on my latest attempt I renewed inlet and outlet gaskets on exhaust as I had a slight oil leak around inlet area. I also cleaned every sensor I could get at with solvent spray cleaner. including those on top of transmission tunnel as I couldn't really understand why it stopped when I took it out of drive. At the moment its running fine just does the odd blip when cold.
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Taraswolf
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 16:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

no mines back to normal as in hunting again im playing with trh idea mayne something to do with the TPS on the top of the fuel pump, thought i had got a good thread to set it up properly but my TPS is the 4 wire plug not the 3 wire plug as in the thread i found and cable colours are different so more searching,
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wales660
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 19:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damm  thought u had solved it then  ........Good effort though.......... God its so annoying

Is there anyone on here who got an electronic pump  type that runs properly?

Jeff
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Taraswolf
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 19:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iv just ordered 4 injector nozzles and i also tested my TPS and thats as dead as a T cake so i need to find out where can get 1 of those.
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wales660
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 20:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taraswolf wrote:
Iv just ordered 4 injector nozzles and i also tested my TPS and thats as dead as a T cake so i need to find out where can get 1 of those.


I would be interested to know how you tested it?

Ive read the tps has a supply voltage coming in and its how it comes out on its return to the ecu is where the magic communication happens.

So on tick over to achieve for example  say 750pm its sending 5.0 volts back to  ecu

Open the throttle a bit say to 1000 rpm the tps will be higher or lower depending on how it works ( i dont know)

Also it needs to be an analogue meter to measure the voltage curve. Its supposed to be more evident if theres a problem with the tps.

Example  connect it up to multi-meter say engine not running with ignition on your reading  for example will be 5 volts, then open the throttle  inturn the tps will move with it. Then watch the dial start climbing on the analogue multi-meter which should be smooth when its climbs with no jumping of the needle. If it jumps all over the place its going to send the wrong voltage to the ecu so hence the car revs getting erratic

If yours is dead (tps) is the car not running?

Thanks

Jeff
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Taraswolf
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 19:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

iv tested TPS by taking the plug off connecting a meter to pin 1 and 4 and checking for resistance and varying resistance as you open/close the throttle on mine there is nothing whatsoever so im looking for a new TPS sensor as we speak lol i think it would be easier to find hens teeth  Rolling Eyes so i might take a punt on another mitsubishi tps see if it will work.

Yer the motor runs ok ish lol starts as tho it is on 3 pots for a few secs chucks smoke out as tho a glow plug is not working but they were new a month ago and since tested and they are ok, it has the stuttering on idle when cold and pumps black smoke out the exhaust for the split second it stutters as it warms up the stuttering gets less, it does not change into top gear/o drive till 62 mph so 10 mph ish over what it should be and if i boot it it doesnt want to kick down although depending on gear its in and speed its doing it will kick down and take off  so im assuming the TPS also talks to the gearbox, i have just recieved the injector nozzles i ordered but i want to see if i can get a replacement TPS sorted 1st.
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wales660
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 20:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good work keep it up hopefully get a result.

Mines changes into top gear at 62 mph too.

My stuttering is intermittent and I lock the choke throttle cable off to rev a little higher than normal . I also run my air-con on all the time on heat.


Do you have the test method and resistance for the tps so i can test mine?

Thanks

Jeff
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Taraswolf
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

if im reading the right bit in the Haynes manual chapter 6 emissions and engine control systems it says TPS OUTPUT VOLTAGE 0.4 - 1.0 VOLT  RESISTANCE AT CLOSED THROTTLE 3.5 6.5 OHMS

to test disconnect the plug that goes to the TPS on the fuel pump mine is the 4 wire plug, inside the plug you will see the 4 flat connection pins that go into the look plug you have just disconnected, attach your meter to the outside 2 pins as in pin 1 and 4 set meter to Ohms and you should get a reading if you do you can play with the throttle and as you move throttle the resistance will change if your TPS is working, mine i get no reading whatsoever.
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Taraswolf
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 22:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any improvements on your idle Jeff !
well upto now iv cleaned out the egr and the 2 vac butterfly that are above the egr and also changed injector tips to no avail still the same, iv recently changed the TPS sensor still no difference to idle of it not changing into overdrive till 62mph ish BUT i have now found that the water temp sensor the 2 wire one near #1 injector is dead easy to check just remove the plug and put you multimeter on the 2 pins when cold it should read 5.9k ohms, at 20c 2.5k ohms, 40c 1.1k ohms, 80c 0.3k ohms mine is open circuit permanently so  iv ordered a new one and this sensor also has some say in when the glo plugs go on off AND also tell the auto box to go into overdrive IF the engine is warm/hot so this sensor being broke and not talking to the ecu could be the reason it does not go into overdrive till 62 ish ! we shall see.
after this i dont know what else to check and am now thinking about changing the electronic pump for a mechanical pump iv put a post up asking if anyone has already done the swop, being the 140bhp with edc pump im hoping the older mechanical 120bhp will work on this motor ! carnt see any reason why it wont its the same engine.
keep updates coming hopefully we will crack it in the end.
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wales660
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

As per private message mine is now ticking over properly for now.

Only things ive done are.

1.Sorted the Air-con
2.Removed the TPS and refitted
3. Disconnected the both batteries for 2 hrs
4. Did an idle relearn (which had nil affect)
5. Turned off Radio and heater ( idle improved but still not right)
6. Used 4H in the snow (Immediately the change in idle was noticeable) Ticked over fine til radio was put on then it blipped a bit.
7.Back in 2H with radio off and heater off (Ticking over fine)

So I believe this is an electrical fault as my pajero has run fine now for a week considering its never run properly since owning it unless the idle relearn
which I did takes weeks to actually settle in (unlikely).

I believe this is electrical and probably a sensor and one that doesn't send a message to the ecu to say theres a fault as no EML light comes on or a broken wire in the wiring loom which is intermittent.

Mine changes to over drive at 62mph  aswell which does seem far to long between the gears to change.

Jeff
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RBZ
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 17:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

If either of you guys sorts out this problem please drop me a line.

I have the same problem with my SWB 2.8 td. I blanked of the ERG valve but that has made no difference. I am taking it into the garage this week to see if the problem can be resolved. The truck runs great apart from when you come to traffic lights or have to stop for a few moments then the thing is hunting and trying to set off down the road. It makes reversing or driving up to an object quite nerve racking when the truck is trying to jump forwards or backwards. Anyway if you sort it drop me a line I shall do the same.
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