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Pre-fill oil filter?

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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:42    Post subject: Pre-fill oil filter? Reply with quote

I've always pre-filled oil filters on my 2.8 Challenger before fitting them.   Doing an oil and filter change yesterday I forgot to pre-fill and realised how much easier it is to fit a dry filter.  I think there are two reasons for this. Firstly it's less messy as there's always some spillage when trying to get a filled filter into position. Secondly it's harder to get the screw thread started as the weight of the filled filter means it needs to be more accurately aligned prior to being rotated.

Are there any views on whether pre-filling on these engines gives any real benefit?
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

I change mine at least three times a year and never pre-fill it.

On the first start after fitting it I start the engine and immediately stop it. Then repeat until the oil pressure light goes off.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Pete. Good to hear you don't pre-fill, but doesn't stopping the engine multiple times allow the oil to drain back each time and increase the run time without pressure?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

The filter fills in three or four starts - the oil doesn't drain back as it is only a few seconds between starts.

I have had cars in the past where the filter screws on horizontally to the block - so no chance of pre-filling them!
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Mark3
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive never pre filled an oil filter (been doing it professionally since 1979) with no issues, as someone said a lot of filters screw onto the side of the block so theres no chance of filling them and the engines dont suffer.....

Stopping and starting the engine with no oil in the system i would had thought would be pretty bad, the sudden force of the engine firing up is a lot more damaging to bearing surface then an engine thats ticking over so i would would think the less starts the better, left to idle for a few seconds until oil pressure is present hasn't really ever had a negative effect on engine life  Very Happy
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hutchy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 16:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

most engines the oil bypasses the filter from cold until it gets to a certain temp or pressure then the oil will get fed into the filter and start to be circulated through it.. Wink
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 23:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark3 wrote:
......the sudden force of the engine firing up is a lot more damaging to bearing surface then an engine thats ticking over ......


I do agree with you about the fewer starts the better, but I'm not sure I understand why the force when starting is more than at tick-over . Surely it's compressing the same amount of air in the same time, if the revs are the same and the engine isn't under load?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Simon. I've never pre filled an engine oil filter on any of the numerous cars I've owned, I doubt the engine manufacturer did either. My mk1 filter is mounted on the horizontal so very little oil can be retained whilst screwing on the filter anyway. That's around 50 new filters fitted to the Paj, I can hardly believe that  Shocked  dave
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dave. I'm sure you're correct about the manufacturers not doing it, but at that stage the bearings will have had assembly lubricant applied to avoid metal-to-metal contact.

As it's possible to pre-fill on the 4M40, I think I will continue to do it on the basis that it can't do any harm and may reduce the time it takes to get the oil circulating under pressure.  

Thanks everyone for their input.  Smile
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Mark3
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 14:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_W wrote:
Mark3 wrote:
......the sudden force of the engine firing up is a lot more damaging to bearing surface then an engine thats ticking over ......


I do agree with you about the fewer starts the better, but I'm not sure I understand why the force when starting is more than at tick-over . Surely it's compressing the same amount of air in the same time, if the revs are the same and the engine isn't under load?


The way i see it is the sudden jolt of the starter turning parts from stationary then the additional jolt of the engine firing up will put more stress on bearings that second than if there already turning, i would suggest its best to limit the amount of starts after the filter and surrounding oil galleries have been drained...


hutchy wrote:
most engines the oil bypasses the filter from cold until it gets to a certain temp or pressure then the oil will get fed into the filter and start to be circulated through it.. Wink


In nearly 40 years of being a professional mechanic i have never ever seen an engine that does this nor ever heard of it mentioned before!
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hutchy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 16:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

taken from Balwin filters mobil and castrol have similar things but can,t find them at the mo when i do i will post them up.. Wink

 Engine Starts - When the engine is started and the oil is cold.
       Cold oil does not flow through the filter element as freely as
       when it is warm. This causes the pressure differential across
       the filter element to increase and the by-pass valve to open.
       The by-pass valve will close once the oil is warm and the
       pressure differential across the filter element drops below the
       by-pass valve pressure setting.

    Plugged Filter – A filter will become plugged if the oil is
       contaminated, or the filter is not serviced according to the
       maintenance schedule. Once the filter becomes plugged, the
       by-pass valve will remain open. This allows unfiltered oil to
       lubricate the engine components, preventing engine damage
       from oil starvation.
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 17:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

hutchy wrote:

 Cold oil does not flow through the filter element as freely as
       when it is warm.


I think the point is described above. It still flows into the filter but not as freely when it is cold.
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hutchy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 18:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think it must be a way of not pushing it through whatever filter media is in the filter until it,s warm..don,t know been on the JD and coke most of the day.. Laughing
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Mark3
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 19:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've cut open many oil filters in my time looking for contamination and i'v never seen one with a built in pressure operated bypass valve ??
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hutchy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 19:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive cut my hand many a time trying to open a filter not looking for valves just to see how much *beep* they actually pick up,but the last one resulted in a few stiches so never bother now...i just use a magnetic sump plug instead...and if the engine ends up with any horrible knocks or rattles from the bottom then something is not right Laughing
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