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Toed64 *
Joined: 28 Jun 2018 Posts: 16 Location: Bedfordshire UK
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:39 Post subject: Slow warm up...any tips? |
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Hello All - happy after Christmas!
I have a low mileage, 2014 LWB diesel and it's excellent. It's my 3rd Shogun and so I know my way around them generally.
Unlike my previous Shoguns (both MK 3s) This one takes a very long time to warm up to normal running temperature. When driven in Drive, without trailer, it can take 20+ minutes for the temperature gauge to start crawling up. I've changed the thermostat and coolant and it's exactly the same.
All I can think of is that maybe there is a thermostat in the transmission cooler circuit...if this has died and is open all the time, maybe that would cause the slow warm up. This happens on Passats sometimes.
So, is there a thermostat in the transmission cooler circuit, or is this a red herring?
I'd be very grateful for any tips or thoughts. |
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:39 Post subject: Google Ads keep the POCUK free to join! |
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perspex ****
Age: 50 Zodiac: Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 475 Location: blackburn lancashire
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 14:49 Post subject: |
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No tips , but just to give u some feedback, mine is 2014 sg4 with 39000 miles on
Started this morning with display reading 3degrees, within 10 mins of running it was up to halfway on temp gauge, so in a nutshell i would say something is a miss with yours , not much help sorting yours , but gives you an idea of where it should be |
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Mark3 LifeTime Member
Age: 61 Zodiac: Joined: 13 Feb 2009 Posts: 4016 Location: Rainham Village, Essex.
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 22:03 Post subject: |
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Its got to be a faulty or incorrect thermostat. |
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Craig-SM ***
Age: 53 Zodiac: Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Posts: 207 Location: Leeds
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 23:37 Post subject: |
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Check the thermostat and make sure you bleed the cooling system in case you have an air blockage |
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assassin ********
Age: 64 Zodiac: Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 5077 Location: Wherever I Wander To -- Midlands
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:19 Post subject: |
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I would also check the fan isn't locked and permanently running and that it actually has a stat installed. |
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Toed64 *
Joined: 28 Jun 2018 Posts: 16 Location: Bedfordshire UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:43 Post subject: |
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Thank you all.
Thanks for confirming the normal warm-up time. Mine is taking at least twice as long for the needle to reach the mid point on the gauge.
The thermostat was replaced with a Blueprint item. I checked the stat that was removed and it was still working fine. Replacement of the stat has not changed the warm up time at all. I conclude that the stat is fine and that there is another cause.
The cooling system is clean and has no airlocks.
Thanks for the thought about the thermo-coupling on the fan drive. I'll investigate.
May I assume then, that none of you knows if there is a thermostat on the gearbox cooler...or that there isn't one on these vehicles?
--
I just checked the fan coupling and it is not locked. It's resistance to movement feels absolutley normal at cold. I'll keep an eye on it when the engine started from cold to see if it's locking early, ie soon after start-up and before the engine is hot. I don't think it's faulty though. |
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kbike ****
Age: 69 Zodiac: Joined: 21 Jul 2013 Posts: 322 Location: telford
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:46 Post subject: |
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Could it be that your temp gauge is just lazy? After all it’s not something that’s calibrated and they are notoriously inaccurate. Maybe a secondary check using an infrared gun thingy wotnot. ( I ain’t an expert) I’m just trying to confirm that you do actually have a fault or not. My MK3 takes a good while to show normal too. |
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Toed64 *
Joined: 28 Jun 2018 Posts: 16 Location: Bedfordshire UK
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 0:06 Post subject: |
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kbike wrote: |
Could it be that your temp gauge is just lazy?... My MK3 takes a good while to show normal too. |
That's a good thought.
My last Shogun, a 2002 MK3 had a random temperature gauge. I knew that there was nothing wrong with the engine or cooling system, so I ony changed the sensor a couple of weeks before I sold it. It was then accurate!
This one's heater takes ages to warm up too, so I think the gauge is reflecting what's going on.
I'm still wondering about my original query about whether the transmission cooler has a thermostat... Does anyone know? I can't see one in any of the exploded images. |
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assassin ********
Age: 64 Zodiac: Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 5077 Location: Wherever I Wander To -- Midlands
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Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:44 Post subject: |
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No stat in the autobox oil cooler. |
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Busapaul Newbie
Age: 52 Zodiac: Joined: 06 Dec 2020 Posts: 5 Location: Kent
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:23 Post subject: |
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Is it poss that the rear cabin heater is switched on ( if your model has it fitted ) |
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Toed64 *
Joined: 28 Jun 2018 Posts: 16 Location: Bedfordshire UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 19:22 Post subject: |
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assassin wrote: |
No stat in the autobox oil cooler. |
Thanks. |
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Toed64 *
Joined: 28 Jun 2018 Posts: 16 Location: Bedfordshire UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 19:23 Post subject: |
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Busapaul wrote: |
Is it poss that the rear cabin heater is switched on ( if your model has it fitted ) |
Good thought, but there's no separate rear cabin heater in this one...my last one did. |
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bazza2468 *
Age: 56 Zodiac: Joined: 29 May 2012 Posts: 45 Location: Eastbourne
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 15:58 Post subject: |
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I've got a 2011 197bhp model and thats awful as well. Took it to local Mitsi dealer and apparently its normal. Even the ac in heating is next to useless. Going to have a look at ac tomorrow. Even after a 15 min 8 mile drive its barely warm. Thinking of getting a block heater i can fit and plug in ready for next winter. |
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Toed64 *
Joined: 28 Jun 2018 Posts: 16 Location: Bedfordshire UK
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:30 Post subject: |
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bazza2468 wrote: |
I've got a 2011 197bhp model and thats awful as well. Took it to local Mitsi dealer and apparently its normal. Even the ac in heating is next to useless. Going to have a look at ac tomorrow. Even after a 15 min 8 mile drive its barely warm. Thinking of getting a block heater i can fit and plug in ready for next winter. |
Interesting. So, is the temperature gauge matching what's happening with the cabin heat? That's the question my favourite mechanic asked yesterday. Mine is, it is slow to warm up, but even when the car has been running for 30 minutes, the heater is not as warm as I would expect...the heater air is just not hot, my last Shogun heater was very effective.
My thinking so far has been:
Slow warm up. Engine never gets too hot, (this vehicle is regularly used for towing heavy trailers, so I know what to expect and watch out for) according to the temperature gauge - so the water pump is working as it should and the radiator is fine.
I changed the coolant and the thermostat - no improvement.
I checked the cooling fan thermo couple clutch to ensure that it is free (ish) when the engine is cold and much stiffer when hot (as suggested above) - that's fine.
I had considered whether the EGR cooler was contributing the cooling system heat during warm up, but valve is not designed to open until the engine is hot, so the heat from the EGR cooler would not shorten the engine warm up time. This was only a vague thought, because I blanked off EGR system on my last Shogun and never experienced any of the slow warm up issues (and the poor running fault was fixed by doing this too).
I wondered if the temperature sensor is slow to respond, but the heater performance coresponds to the indication given by the temperature gauge...except that the cabin air is only warm, not hot. I will check the temperature of the heater pipes with the heater blasting on full power. If there is not much of a temperature difference on the pipes, I will have some indication that, either the heater matrix is a bit blocked (unlikely in a December 2014 car with only 40,000 miles) or the heating system is not calling for enough heat... Hmm... This does not explain the slow warm up, but might address the cabin heat.
My car is not equipped with the dog box heater that my last one had...so there is no blame to be cast there.
Hence I wondered if there is a thermostat in the transmission cooling system...I couldn't find one in the cooling system exploded views I found on line and I have not found such a beast while poking around underneath. Helpful contributor above confirmed that there is no transmission cooler stat.
So, like you, I have been starting to think about modifications to improve this aspect of what is otherwise the best tow vehcile I've ever had. However, I can't help thinking that this doesn't address what is probably a fault. I am considering installing an electric cooling fan to dispense with the engine-driven fan. This would reduce the wind rush through the radiator until the engine is hot (but only a little) and would also save a little fuel and a couple of bhp. So there may be a couple of excuses for doing this...but I don't think it'll address the issue. |
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NDZ ***
Age: 49 Zodiac: Joined: 29 Dec 2016 Posts: 216 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 17:43 Post subject: |
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I fitted a digital coolant gauge to my 2.8, easy to fit into top hose but keeping the dash fittings tidy probably takes more time. Anyway, it tells you a lot about the system that the 2.8 factory needle covers up (such as nearly a 30 degree tolerance in the middle when it doesn't move) I found that winter suburban driving may never open up the thermostat as the temp can hover around 50-60 if its just doing roundabouts in slow traffic. Give it a hill or open road and you can easily spot the thermostat opening and the system temp will settle down to about 82 in my case (upgraded rad) and likewise for towing it gives plenty of warning on what might happen next. I was pulling a 2 tonne twin axle trailer and didn't worry unless we were on a long motorway climb which was the only time I entertained mid-90s temps and would pull over if there wasn't a descent in sight. Also, if it shifted down into 3rd you would get improved cooling at 40mph compared to 4th at 50mph for those climbs and I wouldn't have known any of the above without the aftermarket gauge as the factory needle just sits in the middle until it boils over!
Sorry that doesn't exactly provide any answers for your situation and I don't know how the Mk4 temp gauge performs but the 2.8 only has three readings - off, on and f*cked it! |
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