The Mitsubishi Pajero Owners Club®

[AJayUK]

First class thread mate...well done!!

[Google]

[denjo]

Very interesting thread,
Keep it going Wilksey,
Does anybody make there own bio diesel
How easy is it to get a chippy to sell you there old oil and how much can you expect to pay.
Ive seen kits for making your own bio, could be a good investment if you can get a good supply of oil.

[batfink1971]

how often do you think you'll have to change the fuel filter??

[Wilkesy]

Right, well the Pajero is still going fine - had to drive a fair distance today to meetings so was up and out early this morning when it was damp and quite cold (coldest since I started trying this veggie oil) - Pajero started straight away, in fact it is exactly the same as before really on startup, doesn't splutter but it never did, smokes a bit to start with, but it always has.

Pajero ran on motorway at a steady 80 - 85 mph, the usual motorway speed for me in the Paj, and was absolutely faultless - no smoke when driving and I am sure that the puff of smoke I used to get when accelerating hard has gone - plus there is absolutely no doubt that it is running much smoother, that's not to say that it was rough before, but the engine seems almost more "refined", less engine wobble and quieter - although I still want to see what the next few weeks bring.

Anyway, because the round trip today was just over 150 miles, I didn't have enough fuel to get there and back, so on the way back had to stick £10 of diesel in (approx. 10 litres) and then drive the next 40 odd miles until I called at our local supermarket. I reckon there was about 5 or 6 litres of "mix" in the tank, although mostly diesel. So I put 6 litres of veggie oil in at the supermarket (Tescos this time and works out to be 43p per litre so I must find it cheaper somewhere else).

I would estimate that the last 10 miles or so that I drove had a mix of 50/50 - a bit more oil than diesel if anything, so this is the highest veggie oil percentage I have run so far. Anyway - again it was faultless - started OK, sounds OK, runs OK - simply the same.

Now one thing I should mention is that I think I am getting used to the "bbq" smell that comes out of the exhaust - as I said it is only faint but slightly more noticeable with the higher oil percentage. Whilst visiting my clients today, 2 of them mentioned the "funny smell" coming from somewhere - I explained that I was running on veggie oil but they didn't believe me - as one of them explained "if you could run a diesel car on vegetable oil then everybody would be doing it".

As a test I did get one of the staff to follow me down a dual carriageway, as close as he could behind me with his car windows open, to see if he could smell the vegetable oil fumes - he said he couldn't and confirmed that there were no clouds of smoke either.

As the weather has warmed right up (hope it has by you too) and is forecast here to be just as hot up through the week, I will just keep adding veggie oil this week if possible because I really believe the Paj will handle at least a 70% oil to 30% diesel mix in the warm weather without even missing a beat. I could be wrong but if I am you'll be the first to know.

If anything at this moment in time, I am just a bit peed off that I didn't try this a long time ago - that's not to say it is going to work long term, but my feelings currently are that these diesel engines actually run better on vegetable oil, and certainly Internet research backs that thought up - so if this is the answer to cutting my fuel bills, I will be very happy that the tax man gets a bit less of my hard earned cash every month.

Updates to follow.


Wilkesy

[Wilkesy]

Sorry forgot to answer the questions about the fuel filter - I don't know. I will probably check it in 3 months or so.

At the end of the day you can get a fuel filter, oil filter and air filter from Milners for £10.00 plus delivery, so I'm not particularly worried. I estimate that I am saving around 50 pence per litre using oil (obviously still got the tax to pay), so far this week alone I have saved around £6.00 - clearly it would be much more if it was a high mileage week.

[The Apache]

Excellent Wilkesy, hopefully your experiences will be of great benefit to all of us with diesel powered Pajeros, now that diesel prices are set to shoot through the roof.
I started running my Paj on svo tonight, running a mix of 70% diesel and 30% svo, and went for a 10 mile drive, and have to agree with you on all of your observations, better response, smoother and quieter running and of course, the bbq smell, which was very pleasant. One thing i did notice was that the exhaust fumes seemed very hot after a 3 mile run of hard driving.
I really can't wait to be hassled by the anti's, and ask them to take a sniff of the exhaust fumes and then tell them how environmentally friendly my motor is

[floyd]

[floyd]

Well what can i say, 'wilkesey' superb idea sharing your experiences with us and 'havin the balls' so to speak, to try such a thing. Myself, i have really been undecided for a very long time now whether to try cooking oil or not. I guess listening to others sayin 'dont risk it' and not looking into this in the correct manner like a lot of you guys have. I will be looking forward to further posts on here because the more i read on, the more i want into this money saving fuel alternative, especially with the highest ever fuel prices that are slaughtering me and every other driver out there.

I got to admit, if i wasnt convinced before, I AM NOW

My wifes friend is a member of 'Batleys' cash & carry warehouse! I could get drums of the stuff

Which oil is better vegetable or sunflower or doesnt it really matter??

Could someone please PM me with info on who to get in touch with about the relevant forms etc.

Excellent info guys! Keep up the good work

Martin

[floyd]

Also just read something about getting an 'Heat Exchanger' fitted... Is this necessary aswell??

[The Apache]

Floyd, give it a go, especially if you can buy veg oil in bulk at lower prices. I've been following threads on this site for 2 months now regarding the use of svo and read articles on numerous websites and was so convinced that it was a good thing, i started using it myself. As for a heat exchanger, you don't need one so long as you keep the svo content to 50% or less of your total fuel input during warm weather, and drop the svo content to probably 25% during colder weather.
As for the tax forms. type in ex103 in google or in the search facility within this site.

Just an afterthought, I don't know how Wilkesy feels about this, but maybe we should leave this thread just for his diary and any relevent posts put into a separate topic, so that will leave us with a nice consistent record of events without clutter. I don't want to upset anybody, I'm just trying to be logical, after all it has been made a sticky:wink:

[VIRGINDELICAOWNER]

wilksey wrote:

From the amount of tax to be paid, the law seems to state that prior to July 2002 you had to pay approximately 26 pence per litre for used (recycled) vegetable oil, but around 47 pence per litre for new vegetable oil, or straight vegetable oil as it is referred to. However, according to many many web sites, including the ones you can supposedly trust like the BBC, the taxation changed in July 2002 and now used and new vegetable oil are both taxed the same, currently at 25.82 pence per litre.

However, I contacted C&E last week about using off the shelf veg and this is the reply I got:
Dear sir,
Thank you for your e-mail in regard to buying vegetable oil and using it
as fuel for your car. I see you were sent an EX103 to register as a
producer. Unfortunately, you cannot place any type of fuel substitute or
extender in your car without paying the excise duty (this is illegal). If
you wish to do what you propose, then you will have to register (using the
form you have). As for the rate of excise duty, this will be the same rate
of excise duty as the fuel you are replacing or extending at the pump. I
have attached a copy of the current excise duty rates for hydro-carbon oils
(for you to view). You will note the rates are from 2004. They were due to
go up this year but this increase has so far been suspended(this can be
subject to change from the chancellor). I have also attached business brief
10/05 for you to view. Our publications on fuel substitutes and bio-diesel
are currently being re-written and replaced, so is at this moment
unavailable. Please look carefully at section one of the 10/05 business
brief. Please note that the lower rate of excise duty for bio-diesel(as per
the attached rates) is only applicable if it meets the criteria as laid out
in the brief (veg oil on it's own is not bio-diesel and would be considered
as a fuel substitute/extender).

I hope the information provided will assist you in furthering your enquiries
on this subject.

So according to that the rate is much higher on new oil as opposed to recycled oil.

I have the EX103 form, but it looks like it is aimed at recycling oils, so much so they seem to come out and inspect your premises??

Can anyone throw any light on filling out the form?

Thanks

[Wilkesy]

VirginDelicaOwner

The whole situation is a bit ridiculous that different people at different C&E departments give different information.

However, as you have had a response in writing, lets assume that your info is correct - what info can you find on the 10/05 Business Brief that they sent you. I have a copy in front of me from the C&E web site - the business brief states that Straight Vegetable Oil must have duty paid in accordance with the Alternative Fuel Rate Section in the 10/05 Business Brief - yet that business brief and duty rate card only shows Biodiesel as an alternative fuel and states the duty rate is currently 28.52 pence per litre. There is no option for vegetable oil!

Most web sites say that to be considered a biodiesel, the fuel substitute must have greater than 96.5% ester by weight and less that 0.005% sulphur - now I haven't got the faintest idea if straight supermarket vegetable oil fits into this bracket - but I am currently trying to find out.

I am about to ask our Accountants to contact Customs and Excise and see if they can get a definitive answer from somebody. Don't hold your breath though.

[The Apache]

I've read that same info on the HM C&E website, and i have to agree that there is no reference to duty payable on svo, this to me suggests a grey area and for the time being open to pleas of ignorance. It also appears that there is a temporary cancellation of the relevent forms which i assume can only mean that they are updating the system to include svo.
I have contacted C&E via email with reference to the cancellation and to find out how much the payable duty is likely to be. As yet the only reply that i have received is a system generated one saying that i should receive a formal reply within 10 days.
Anyway, can anybody explain the justification of duty on what is probably the most environmentally friendly fuel. it's just take take take at the moment
BTW, are any members here C&E employees?

[Wilkesy]

OK then, according to CCORN, which is the Cembridgeshire Community Reuse and Recycling Network, who are government funded by The Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) - the duty payable on Straight Vegetable Oil is exactly the same as biodiesel, because it IS biodiesel.

What they say is that if you were to mix SVO with something else, such as White Spirit, then it is taxable in the higher band because it is no longer classified as biodiesel.

However, because we are talking here about using SVI with nothing added to it - other than normal diesel which has already been taxed at the pump, the duty payable is exactly the same as Biosdiesel, that currentl being 28.53 pence per litre.

To have a look at their document visit: -

http://www.ccorrn.org.uk/pdf/Biodiesel.pdf

Wilkesy

[VIRGINDELICAOWNER]

That clears that up then! I'll just send off my EX103, wait for them to send relevant tax forms and take it from there. If it is 28p a litre plus the 46p a litre for the veg then it still works out a lot cheaper than Deisel and cleaner!!

Thanks for your help on that