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Vegetable Oil - My Diary

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Wilkesy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 20:57    Post subject: Vegetable Oil - My Diary Reply with quote

Dear All

OK then, having spent many an hour reading posts about the use of vegetable oil, and reading everything possible on the Internet, I made the decision last week to start running mine on veggie oil. I thought it would be useful for other readers if I kept a short diary on here of what I have done / will do in the hope it will help others. I know others on here already run theirs on vegetable oil, but clearly a lot of people want to but are concerned (me for instance).

So first off what do I drive - it's a 92 J reg 2.5 Turbo Diesel LWB Pajero. It has approx. 60,000 miles on it, I have owned it for nearly a year, and tend to do an oil/air/fuel filter change every 6 months or so (done 2 so far). It runs pretty well, smokes on start up a bit and tends to smoke a bit when I put my foot down, but remember that it does this without using anything but diesel so far.

I decided to use vegetable oil for one simple reason - finances. Obviously the more altruistic of you may be doing it for the environment etc. but for me I just hate the thought of paying ever increasing diesel prices if I can find something cheaper. Evil or Very Mad

So throughout this diary, which I will try to add to every few days, I will put my experiences so far. Obviously bear in mind that this is purely what I have decided to do and I do not want to try and influence anybody into doing the same - I simply want to provide my own real-life experiences - it's your choice what you do.

Firstly I felt I should register with Customs and Excise to avoid getting caught using veggie oil without having done anything official. So I downloaded off the Internet the relevant form called Form EX 103. I filled it in with my name and address, signed it and got a witness (my partner) to put her signauture on it - then under "nature of business" I was told to put "vegetable oil fuel producer" - even though I only intend to buy brand new vegetable oil (most people refer to this as Straight Vegetable Oil or SVO) from the supermarket - sounds silly but that is what Customs and Excise consider you to be apparently.

Now theoretically I am supposed to send this form off to C&E and await some kind of confirmation that they have received it, at which point I can start using veggie oil - but having read different reports on the Internet, and having tried to get some sense out of C&E over the phone, I have decided purely to keep this form in my Paj and show it if I get stopped by the Police.

So to keep this legal, I am keeping records of how much veggie oil I put in the tank and on what days I do it. For ease I am keeping these records on my computer in a simply Excel spreadsheet. Now according to C&E all I have to do to be totally legal is fill in a form (can't remember what it is called) at the end of every month showing how many litres of vegetable oil I have used, and send them a cheque for approx. 47p for every litre I use. In fact some web sites say that you can pay much less if it is bio fuel I think. But either way at the end of every month I should work out how many litres and send them a cheque for the tax on the veggie oil.

Now I can imagine some people just deleting their records at the end of every month and not sending C&E any tax - unless they happen to have been pulled over by the police etc. during that month, in which case it would be very unwise not to send in some kind of tax payment - but clearly that would be illegal and you would be tax dodging.

Now everything on the internet and from C&E states quite clearly that you only have to pay tax on the vegetable oil AFTER you have used it for fuel.

So anyway, today I have just put £15.00 worth of diesel in the Paj (about 15 litres) and bought two 3 litre bottles of vegetable oil from Morrisons (it actually says rapeseed oil on the back) - they cost £1.25 per bottle so it's expensive at 41p per litre, so over the next few weeks I am going to ask my local friendly chip shop to order it for me in bulk - presumably they get trade and bulk discounts.

So having put the diesel in, I came home, made a funnel out of the top of a 2 litre coke bottle, and poured in the two bottles of vegetable oil. So now I have 15 litres of diesel (the tank was empty before I filled up with diesel) and 6 litres of veggie oil, so roughly a 40/60 mix with 40% veggie oil - this might be a bit much but I intend to try at least a 50/50 mix anyway over the next few weeks if this works.

I am aware that a lot of people suggest not using over 50% mix when the weather is a bit cold, because apparently the oil can get a bit thick. At the moment its fairly wet and cold by me, so hence the 40/60 mix.

Anyway, clearly the Paj starts and runs fine at the moment although the oil has only been in for an hour or so with a few miles driven, but we will see over the next day or two what it's like and I'll add it on here. I will specifically see if it works, if it's smoother to drive, smokes more or less, and whether or not I have any starting problems. Obviously fingers crossed the bloody thing doesn'y actually blow up or something Shocked

Hope this helps.

Wilkesy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 20:57    Post subject: Google Ads keep the POCUK free to join!


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helijohn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 0:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
3 litre bottles of vegetable oil from Morrisons (it actually says rapeseed oil on the back) - they cost £1.25 per bottle so it's expensive at 41p per litre


Well that's good! At my Morrisons it does vary from 45 - 47 pence a litre in singles. It is never as low as 41p but in 3 litre bottles it looks like it is surprisingly even more per unit litre (£1.39). It has always struck me as being funny that if you buy in bulk you can't get it a little cheaper - but on the other hand I've noticed that they (Morrisons) encourage buying more than a person needs and that single units are costlier than Sainsbury. I mean who eats 5 large sausage rolls (£1.53) when one costs 45p?
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cssuk
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

find a local aisianor chinese cash and carry these guys round here at least sell veggie oil in 20 litre tubs for up to a tenner i currently pay 7.50 for mine but some places charge 9.99 i fill up £40 and stick a tub and a half in to make it roughly 40/60 did try 50/50 but it was a bit too smelly ran fine tho
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wayne99
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have experimented with oure veg oil and my motor ran fine and seemed quieter,
just one thing is the veg oil likely to damage my fuel pump seals.
if it is then it is going to be false economy.
are there any 2.8 guys out there usuing veg oil all the time and have you noticed any probs
Very Happy Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 13:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

just been asked by a mate with a TD Discovery (yeah, none too bright.lol) if he can safely use veggie oil in his as well. Anyone know?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 13:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

this makes interesting reading on the subject of veg oil
http://www.dieselveg.com/conversion%20info.htm
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Flunter
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 19:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work Wilkesy, i'm reading with great interest and look forward to your next report
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Wilkesy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 19:28    Post subject: Day Two Reply with quote

OK then, day two.

This morning was wet and fairly cold, nothing severe but colder than yesterday.

So today had to drive a short distance, 5 or 6 miles perhaps. Paj started perfectly as it always has done - still a bit of smoke on startup so no real improvement there. Drove the Paj fairly hard over the few miles I travelled, as I wanted to see if the smoke on kick-down had reduced.

Well before I even managed to see if the smoke had reduced, I was certain that the response has improved. The Paj seems to pick-up quicker and seems to be smoother whilst driving - I want to see if this continues as I am aware it could be purely psychological. But it certainly seems quicker and smoother. As for smoke on kick-down, again I need to check over the coming days/weeks, but it seems better - in fact I couldn't see any smoke in the rear-view mirror on kick-down, which occassionally I could before.

So what about the smell - well inside the Paj there is no smell at all, but I left the car idling on the drive and went and stood around the back, and it smells, only faintly, like a barbecue - seriously, it's actually a really nice smell. Not sure if people on the pavement can smell it, but if they can I'm sure they would rather have that than diesel fumes.

So the highlights of day two - seems to run and drive a bit smoother, certainly seems more responsive, no major difference in smoke levels (a bit less if anything) and it has a faint smell of barbecue when running Smile Of course I am also saving money on every mile I drive Very Happy

Long journey of circa 150 miles to do on Tuesday for meetings in Birmingham, so I intend to fill up in the same quantities as before if required and see how it goes. Will add findings to this thread.

Wilkesy
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alan
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 20:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Well you have my attention I will be looking for your updates
I have used it in the past with no ill effects but only short term

Regards

Alan Very Happy Very Happy
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Monkey Hanger
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 21:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Extremely interesting thread, particularly as diesel is rapidly approaching the "magic" £1 a litre!

Question for Alan - why did you only use it "short term"? Was it a problem with supply, or were you concerned about any long term damage?

Also, the main thread mentioned a tax payment to C&E (shouldn't this be C&A?) of "approx. 47p a litre" and the link quoted 27.1p - a fair difference. Which amount is correct?

Finally, a mate of mine has a fish and chip shop. Would his frying oil be suitable?

Look forward to others' experiences.
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nick the nurse
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 21:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as is pure vegatable (corn) oil or rapeseed oil fer *beep* sake don't use olive oil as it emulsfies when it gets cold Shocked Shocked Shocked
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nemesis
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 21:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

top post...am waiting in anticaption for the results....im glad someone else did this as i was bricking it, incase i booogered up my engine
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alan
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 21:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
No I never had any problems I just tried it a few times off road of course I never really found out how to pay the tax so I stopped using it

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Alan
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Wilkesy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 23:16    Post subject: Update Reply with quote

OK then, I have investigated the taxation and reporting issues regarding Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) and my findings are below. I'm sure that there are more qualified people out there, but so far this is what I have. Note that this is the info I am basing my use of SVO on, please satisfy yourselves as to the law rather than tale my info as fact.

Firstly to answer the question about C&E - the payments certainly do have to be made to Customs and Excise and the address can be found on the Internet. The one I have is based in Gosforth, Newcastle Upon Tyne.

At the end of every month (providing you have used SVO during that month) you have to send a form showing how many litres of veggie oil you have used, on what dates, and enclose a cheque for the taxation on that oil. I am using my own form, but most people tend to say you should use form HO 930 which you will apparently get from C&E after you have sent back your EX 103 form which i mentioned in my first post. I don't have form HO 930 because I have simply completed for EX 103 and am keeping it in my car. This is purely my choice, but the fact that C&E didn't appear to know anything about SVO helped make my decision.

From the amount of tax to be paid, the law seems to state that prior to July 2002 you had to pay approximately 26 pence per litre for used (recycled) vegetable oil, but around 47 pence per litre for new vegetable oil, or straight vegetable oil as it is referred to. However, according to many many web sites, including the ones you can supposedly trust like the BBC, the taxation changed in July 2002 and now used and new vegetable oil are both taxed the same, currently at 25.82 pence per litre.

As I say, this is what I have found thus far - my first tax return will no doubt show 26 pence per litre tax payable.

A simple search of SVO or "vegetable oil for cars" will bring up thousands of results, I just read a few. In all honesty I just want to see what happens to the Pajero running on veggie oil, sorting out the tx for me will come later, but obviously you should do whatever is right for you.

Don't know if this is helping anybody, but I hope so.

Wilkesy
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Wilkesy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 14:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pink Pig posted this web site link on another thread, but it was so good I wanted to make sure it was also posted here to make sure nobody missed it.

Explains using vegetable oil in plain english.

http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm
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