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fuel pump seal - DIY info needed please

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Mark3
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 16:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAJERO94 wrote:
Hi

Been reading lots of comments and opinions on this subject and some say they have problems when 1st starting and others when the car has warmed up .

The problem I’m having is now and again over the last 12 months my pajero struggles to start initially but once started runs fine , could this symptom be the fuel pump seals or something else ??

Thanks


Main symptoms are stalling shortly after cold starting, sometimes it causes trouble with the initial start as well but NEVER usual hot starting.......
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PAJERO94
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 17:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks mark

Only ever get the problem when 1st starting and usually if parked pointing up but it’s also happened on the flat ... once started I’m away and it’s fine for a while .... I wish you were closer as you’re obviously an expert on this subject


Does it sound like the seals to you ?

Cheers

Dean
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 18:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAJERO94 wrote:
Only ever get the problem when 1st starting and usually if parked pointing up but it’s also happened on the flat ... once started I’m away and it’s fine for a while .... I wish you were closer as you’re obviously an expert on this subject
Does it sound like the seals to you ?


If you're problem isn't related to a low ambient temperature (which could make it a glow plug issue) then I'd say your issue could be fuel draining back into the tank when it's left overnight. The fact that it usually happens if the front is uphill reinforces this view.   One way of checking is to prime the fuel filter manually after the car has been standing for a while pointing uphill.  If the filter fills up as you prime, and the engine starts easily after that, it's a good indicator.

Then it's a matter of locating the source of any air ingress.
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Mark3
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 22:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_W wrote:
PAJERO94 wrote:
Only ever get the problem when 1st starting and usually if parked pointing up but it’s also happened on the flat ... once started I’m away and it’s fine for a while .... I wish you were closer as you’re obviously an expert on this subject
Does it sound like the seals to you ?




Then it's a matter of locating the source of any air ingress.


Combined with cold run stalling the point of ingress will be the pump seal, hence leaving it pointing up hill makes it worse  Sad
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark3 wrote:
 Combined with cold run stalling the point of ingress will be the pump seal, hence leaving it pointing up hill makes it worse  Sad

I may be wrong, but I don't think that PAJERO94 is having a problem with cold run stalling.  He wrote that  "my Pajero struggles to start initially but once started runs fine".  That's why I don't think this one necessarily points to a pump seal issue.
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kenthepipe
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAJERO94 wrote:
Hi

Been reading lots of comments and opinions on this subject and some say they have problems when 1st starting and others when the car has warmed up .

The problem I’m having is now and again over the last 12 months my pajero struggles to start initially but once started runs fine , could this symptom be the fuel pump seals or something else ??

Thanks



Glow plugs..,?
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Mark3
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Age: 61
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Location: Rainham Village, Essex.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 14:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_W wrote:
Mark3 wrote:
 Combined with cold run stalling the point of ingress will be the pump seal, hence leaving it pointing up hill makes it worse  Sad

I may be wrong, but I don't think that PAJERO94 is having a problem with cold run stalling.  He wrote that  "my Pajero struggles to start initially but once started runs fine".  That's why I don't think this one necessarily points to a pump seal issue.


Ah, yes your quite right, he hasn't mentioned stalling at all....... Doh!  Rolling Eyes
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PAJERO94
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 17:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input everyone

To clarify on occasions the truck struggles to start and runs lumpy for a few minutes but if you give it some revs it's seams to smoke a bit and clear itself then runs fine,  doesn't happen every time just now and again ?????
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 23:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, that sounds like air in the fuel to me. As I wrote earlier, try priming it and see if it improves.

The air leak will be somewhere upstream of the pump.  Common causes are pinholes in the flexible hose; hose clips that aren't tight; poorly sealed fuel filter; poorly sealed water trap; rusted through fuel lines; and a rusted through fuel pickup.  

Take your time and work through it. You'll get there in the end. Been there, done it.....        Wink
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PAJERO94
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 0:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_W wrote:
Yup, that sounds like air in the fuel to me. As I wrote earlier, try priming it and see if it improves.

The air leak will be somewhere upstream of the pump.  Common causes are pinholes in the flexible hose; hose clips that aren't tight; poorly sealed fuel filter; poorly sealed water trap; rusted through fuel lines; and a rusted through fuel pickup.  

Take your time and work through it. You'll get there in the end. Been there, done it.....        Wink


When you say prime it first , how do I do that ? Sorry if it’s a daft question
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a pump on the fuel filter housing, and an air bleed valve.  So just crack the bleed valve a tad and pump until you see a few drops of fuel coming out. Then close the bleed and try to start it.

This is a non-original part, but you can see the pump on the top and the bleed valve to the left. The designs do vary a bit though.




Another fairly common problem is the fitment of a fuel filter without removing the 'extra' seal that some are supplied with.  The filter should look like the one on the left.  The extra seal is shown on the right. It's in a cage of pressed metal and can be removed easily.



Temporarily replacing the rubber fuel hose with clear hose can often show up the air bubbles in the fuel.  Then work back towards the tank until you find the problem.
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PAJERO94
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_W wrote:
There's a pump on the fuel filter housing, and an air bleed valve.  So just crack the bleed valve a tad and pump until you see a few drops of fuel coming out. Then close the bleed and try to start it.

This is a non-original part, but you can see the pump on the top and the bleed valve to the left. The designs do vary a bit though.




Another fairly common problem is the fitment of a fuel filter without removing the 'extra' seal that some are supplied with.  The filter should look like the one on the left.  The extra seal is shown on the right. It's in a cage of pressed metal and can be removed easily.



Temporarily replacing the rubber fuel hose with clear hose can often show up the air bubbles in the fuel.  Then work back towards the tank until you find the problem.



Thanks again I’ll try those things and see how I get on , the mechanic I use said he could fit an extra fuel pump wired to the glow plugs to prime the system as a temporary measure... have you ever heard of this being done ?
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAJERO94 wrote:
Thanks again I’ll try those things and see how I get on , the mechanic I use said he could fit an extra fuel pump wired to the glow plugs to prime the system as a temporary measure... have you ever heard of this being done ?

Fitting an electric pump is a fairly common bodge. You're much better off fixing the problem itself rather than the symptom, which will probably get worse over time.
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_W wrote:
PAJERO94 wrote:
Thanks again I’ll try those things and see how I get on , the mechanic I use said he could fit an extra fuel pump wired to the glow plugs to prime the system as a temporary measure... have you ever heard of this being done ?

Fitting an electric pump is a fairly common bodge. You're much better off fixing the problem itself rather than the symptom, which will probably get worse over time.


It could also push fuel through the worn seal and fill the sump with diesel.

Why do mechanics suggest bodges like that??
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:
Why do mechanics suggest bodges like that??

In a way I can understand it Pete. Bodges can bring about an immediate 'fix' for relatively little money. Finding an air leak can be time consuming, and unless you know what you're doing you won't necessarily find it. So a garage can then be faced with asking a customer for payment for hours of work with no result.  If they fit a pump for £X and then labour for £Y the customer is going to pay without questions.

It's one of the reasons that whenever I can I do all my own work on my cars.  I just don't want bodges done. If I spend a bit of time on owners' forums I can normally find several write-ups to guide me in the right direction.
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