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2001 3.5 GDI engine stumble

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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 23:31    Post subject: 2001 3.5 GDI engine stumble Reply with quote

Hi all

Just picked up a SWB Shogun GDI auto and have noticed on the journey home that the engine is struggling above 4k RPM.

Put your foot down and it pulls fine up till 4k, very smooth but then pretty much hits a brick wall and stumbles, almost like missfiring, for another 500 - 1k rpm then changes up a gear.

You can also feel a slight stumble around the time the GDI ECO light cuts out when your driving relatively gently.

Its pretty strange, was thinking plugs maybe initially but then thought it may be more due to a fueling problem?

All help most appreciated and I'm hoping for a very cheap fix....!

Cheers Simon
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nick-dudley
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 23:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuel starvation caused by pump micro filters, on the back of the o/s inlet manifold?
Waynec is the guy to ask.
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waynec
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 0:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick's spot on - mirco seals blocked, theres 2 of them, there in the pump on rear of engine.
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waynec
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 0:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where do you live sim???????????
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers guys..

Are they easy enough to change?

Do you have to buy them genuine from a dealer of am I better off going elsewhere for them?

Which gaskets are needed? don't want to stip it all down and not have the bits to put it back togeather!

Is it an easy job that can be done in an afternoon and how much £££ are we looking at?

I'm based near Caerphilly in South Wales.

Theres a few other niggly bits I need to sort but I'll get his done first and see how it goes!

Cheers once again Simon
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other question. Is there a procedure for carrying this out? does the fuel system need to be flushed to stop this happening again?

Simon
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nick-dudley
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 19:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

SimonShogun wrote:
One other question. Is there a procedure for carrying this out? does the fuel system need to be flushed to stop this happening again?

Simon

I think its quite a big stripdown mate Crying or Very sad  pretty sure its inlet manifold off, unless waynec has any "short - cuts"?
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waynec
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 21:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite a bit strip down - yes - inlet manifold off.
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 13:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just spoken to my local dealer with regards to getting the parts and one of the technicians there has told me Mitsubishi have issued a mod to overcome this from happening.

Sounds VERY expensive and hes getting back to me with a price although I'm starting to wish I hadn't bought it now!

As you've all said, he agrees the micro filter change may cure it but he says its only a temporary fix Sad

Spoken to a couple if specialists (not local) who won't even entertain selling me the parts, or tell me exactly what is needed, gaskets etc... unless they look at it first and I'm struggling to find anyone who I could trust locally to look into it for me.

Don't really trust dealers as I've had bad dealings with them in the past trying to fob you off so they can make daft money.

If its that common, why has this not been issued as a recall????????

OK

Tech just called me back with a price............ Sad  Sad  Sad

Looking at £960+VAT ish!!!! OMFG!!!!

He said its a replacement fuel pump in the tank and some filters...?? Doesn't make sense to me. He said they don't do anything with the High Pressure pump??

Err..... HELP!!!!

Where do I get 'ALL' the bits to try this high pressure fuel pump microfilter change myself?? I'm taking your advise first as you guys have obviously done this before!!

Is it best to get a head gasket set off ebay? Will this have everything I need except the filters?

Where do I get the filters from?

Do these filters require any special tools to replace them???

Short of trying to fix this problem with a match I'm feeling a little lost!!!!!

Simon  Sad
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 15:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just spoken to e tech at mitsiland.co.uk  Sad  Sad

He is also saying fuel tank pump and that thay are changing them all the time due to this problem.

Copper from inside the pump breaking down and blocking the filter thus starving the engine of fuel.

Their price £1500 +half hour labour!!!!!  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad  Sad

NIGHTMARE....!!!
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 15:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't want to throw money away trying to fix this

Is there any way of checking the fuel pressure at different intervals in the system to see where it is losing the pressure, be it the tank pump or high pressure pump?

Sorry to be throwing all these questions but don't want to strip half the engine to find its the tank pump & filter, but also don't want to replace the tamp pump and filter to find its the High pressure pump faulty or just the filters?

Anyone local have a code reader that I could maybe pop around and see if there are any codes stored on the ecu relating to this?

Cheers Simon
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waynec
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 22:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one Sim, but I'm prob just to far away.
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 0:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Wayne

You are just a little too far away, although its only a 200 mile round trip which is about £50 in petrol so it may workout cheaper coming to you to get the code read than going to my local dealer!  Laughing

Got the Shogun home for the next few days as SWMBO is off work till Monday.

Have emailed Mitsubishi to try and establish the pressure and flow rates for the Tank pump and high pressure pump. I'd like to make sure they are working within spec. What do you think the chances are of a sensible reply from them?

Anyone on here know the Pressure & Flow rates?

Will start from the tank pump, replace the main filter, check the lines for blockages if accessable both ends and I guess eventually make it through to the high pressure pump.

Feel I'm best doing it in that order as it seems daft to check the front and work back incase I dislodge some debris that blocks the front up again!

Will check the tank pump supply and earth whilst I'm at it.

Got a haynes manual but it doesn't cover the GDI so I guess I'm doing this all blind!!!!

Wish me luck!!!

Out of interest, if the tank pump is stuffed has anyone used the aftermarket replacement ones that are available? For £90 they are much more reasonable than a Mitsubishi part!!
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SimonShogun
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 19:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK

If it ain't broke don't fix it!!!

Took the tank pump out today and..... err........ Stripped it down....!

Nothing broken, checked the flow rate of the pump and its flowing about 3.2 Litres per minute. Unable to test the pressure, but it is significantly high, I'd say its pretty good.

So I've reassembled the pump back into its housing and replaced the unit back in the car and connected everything up....

Started first time  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

All good I thought... Then it stumbled and died on me.

Restart, all good again, but cant rev her, she just keeps running out of fuel.

You can hear the pump whizzing around nice and strong.

Let her idle for a while and tried revving her again. With the car in Park/Neutral she revs to between 3k & 4k and then cuts out dies and picks back up again.

Its almost like theres an air lock that needs to be cleared. Do these need bleeding after a pump change? If so how?

Theres NO filter?? in the line at all from the pump to the front of the car but looks like there is some kind of filtration built in to the main plastic pump body that sits inside the tank.

Took her for a short drive around hoping the bumping around of the car would have cleared and air locks but to no avail.....

She's running like a dog!!!

Tomorrow I'll pull the fuel hose from under the car where it starts heading up to the engine bay, I'll do a flow test there to see how much is being lost up to this point.

Just had a very unhelpful email from Mitsubishi saying they won't give me the flow & pressures at each pump and I'll have to go to a dealer!!!  Mad

Anyone know what the flow rates should be?

Will post some pics of the destruction (progress) later and I guess see how we get on tomorrow!!!

Oooops....!!! Just downloaded some photos and noticed something I haven't put back on!  Rolling Eyes

Oh well guess I'm back to square 1 in the morning... Never mind, altleast I've found it! LOL

Simon
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waynec
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 21:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove the saels and try it Sim.
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