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Auto gearbox - won't change up into top gear?

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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 14:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the wire to the single connector Yellow and Blue ?
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Steve_C
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 15:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

peteinchad wrote:
Is the wire to the single connector Yellow and Blue ?


It's pretty grubby, but does look like it's yellow and blue, possibly yellow and green.
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 15:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is Yellow and Blue then that is definitely the temperature gauge on my wiring diagram.

I asked just to check that the wiring colours on your later truck matched the colours on my quite old (1994) wiring diagram - and that one does.

I would search around to look for another sender with a Blue and White wire. If the colour of the gauge sender is the same as my diagram then there is a good chance that the O/D sender on your truck will have the same colours as my diagram.
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Steve_C
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 15:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just went out and cut back the sleeving a bit to get a better look - it is yellow and blue.  I can't see yellow and blue (presumably shown as L-Y) on your diagram though.

I also had a look around the engine to try to spot anything else that looks like a temperature sender, but can't see anything else that's obvious.  Logically, I'd expect there to be something like the sender in Simon_W's image, but it must be hidden away somewhere.  That said, if there is another sender, I've no idea what the 2-contact sender in my picture is for.
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Steve_C
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 16:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_W wrote:
Thanks Mark. I appreciate your intervention.

Steve, I apologise for my errors but the advice in my first post wasn't too far off the mark. Pun intended.  Wink


No apologies necessary - it's all useful stuff.  I still can't find anything that looks quite like your sensor though.  Curses.
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Steve_C
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible / likely that a failed O2 sensor is contributing to this problem?  I have fault code P0161 O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Bank 2 Sensor 2
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Steve_C
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 17:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got this from my main dealer today, but unfortunately it isn't much help as the wire colours don't match my car



Their parts department is certain that there are only two temperature sensors on the engine.  I think the P0161 sensor problem is unrelated.

I did some more checking with a multimeter today.  The values I get from the sensor for the temperature gauge on the dash are in volts - I guess this is logical as a voltage would be required to drive the gauge.  I made up a couple of wires to go between the double plug and the sensor so that I could get access with the multimeter.  The Green and yellow wire gives me a voltage which drops as the temperature increases.  The black wire gives me nothing.  If I switch to resistance, the green and yellow wire was giving me a reading of 34 which was stable for a while, but then eventually dropped to around 22.  The black wire consistently gave me a reading of 0.8.  The engine was running for around 20 minutes, which would normally be long enough for the problem to manifest itself.

I took the car up the road (with pikey wires disconnected, proper connector back on) and it did change into top.  Got home, reconnected the pikey wires and still got the same readings.  Left it to idle for another 10 minutes, but the readings didn't change.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 18:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you got overdrive when you reconnected the plug, then maybe the electrical connection is suspect.  I'd try cleaning the terminals - that might have been all it needed.
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Steve_C
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 19:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trouble is, it was selecting overdrive when the engine got warm before, then it would stop selecting it after the engine had been warm for 10-15 minutes
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Steve_C
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having slept on it, I'm wondering if I'm looking at this wrong.  In both the wiring diagram provided by Pete and the one I received from the garage, the key component is the "Engine coolant temperature SWITCH", where I've been thinking in terms of sensors.  In both diagrams, the switch is shown connected to an earth.

When I tested my double connector switch yesterday, the black wire was consistently giving a resistance reading of 0.8 (Ohms?), which didn't vary with engine temperature.  Is it likely that this is actually an earth wire, i.e. the earth side of the switch, given that the resistance was so low?  I had the other probe of the multimeter on a bolt head on the radiator mounting, so there would have been some resistance between the wire and the chassis, but not much.

If this is the case, it seems logical that simply shorting the two connections in the double plug would close the circuit and allow the overdrive gear to be engaged.  This assumes of course that the connector is actually related to the overdrive switch, as the wire colours I have don't match either of the diagrams, but I can't see any other temperature sensors / switches.  Does this sound reasonable?
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - it sounds reasonable.

Black wires are almost invariably earth wires on most cars.

It may be called a switch but in reality it is more likely to be an NTC variable resistor - i.e. it's resistance will get less as it gets hot, so it will have a similar action to a switch.

The only problem is whether that sensor is for the gearbox as there is one sensor for the air conditioning.
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Steve_C
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the double connector doesn't appear to be related to the problem.



I inadvertently left it disconnected after mucking about with the mutlimeter during my lunch break and drove home with exactly the same symptoms as before.  So, IF the gearbox requires a switched signal to tell it that it's ok to change into top, it wasn't getting it from this sensor as it did change into top for some of the journey.

I had the car in with the main dealer to investigate something else, and asked them to tell me where the sensor was. "Yes, no problem, we've identified it for you", except when I got there and spoke to the mechanic, I discovered that what they actually meant was "We have no beeping idea what we're talking about and we don't know where the sensor is".  Brilliant.

Simon_W - I know you have a different engine, but any information about where your sensor is mounted might give me a clue where to look for mine.  I'm also wondering if the yellow wire in the diagram provided by the dealer might be spliced onto the wire from the single connector sensor that drives the gauge on the dashboard, but I don't know if this is likely.
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Simon_W
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 0:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve_C wrote:

Simon_W - I know you have a different engine, but any information about where your sensor is mounted might give me a clue where to look for mine.  


Sure. I will see what I can do tomorrow - weather and time permitting.
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peteinchad
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve_C wrote:
Well, the double connector doesn't appear to be related to the problem.


I inadvertently left it disconnected after mucking about with the mutlimeter during my lunch break and drove home with exactly the same symptoms as before.  So, IF the gearbox requires a switched signal to tell it that it's ok to change into top, it wasn't getting it from this sensor as it did change into top for some of the journey.



The sensor on my truck needs to be earthed to make it send a signal to switch the O/D on - so leaving it disconnected would be the same as the sensor not working.

Try earthing the wires that go to the sensor.

There is a photo HERE showing some sensors on a Shogun V6. Maybe of some help.
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Steve_C
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks gents.

I think the point is that because the O/D did work for some of the journey with the sensor disconnected, it can't be getting it's signal from that sensor because as Pete says, it would be the same as the sensor not working for the whole journey.

I came across that picture myself during my interminable googling to try to find it.  Unfortunately, that doesn't look anything like my engine / sensor arrangement.  When / if it stops raining I have a couple of possible locations to investigate, but I'm pretty sure they won't reveal it.
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